Virgin loses Cross Country rail (BBC News)

[RF News]

Virgin Trains fails in its attempt to continue operating the Cross Country rail franchise, as rival Arriva triumphs.

More from BBC News...

[swisstrains]

All this chopping and changing is a strange way to run a railway
I am not normally a great supporter of Virgin but they seem to have got to grips with the Cross-country services.

[dave47549]

Originally Posted by swisstrains

All this chopping and changing is a strange way to run a railway
I am not normally a great supporter of Virgin but they seem to have got to grips with the Cross-country services.

Well, the party is in full swing at my home! I note from one article that a certain VXC 'head' is whinging to the DfT as to why they lost the franchise, when the 'reason' is most likely something that VT has been using as a business practise for ages!

(I might be willing to explain further, but certainly not on a public forum - sorry.)

There are only two downsides to this decision. 1) I doubt Arriva will be any better. 2) Toyagers won't be following VXC onto the scrapheap!

[martin adamson]

Originally Posted by swisstrains

All this chopping and changing is a strange way to run a railway

Completely agree. I don't like the new franchise ideas from the DfT. Giving companies more control over the network is not exactly competitive and we might all end up paying more than we should. I don't like the idea of one cmapny running both regional and intercity services (e.g. East Midlands franchise). It should be split up with local regional companies and intercity companies (I guess how it was like when privatisation began in 1995).

I have got used to Virgin and even tough I think there are serious crowding issues on the XC lines (especially ECML targeted services). If virgin had done a move like MML (4-5 car 222s) and had larger capacity voyagers (6/7 car voyagers?) then we would have a really good XC line.

But then, we can't exactly blame virgin for that. It's the DfT's fault for not allocating extra coaches for Virgin to use for voyagers. I hope Arriva are successful wit this but I think this is a big task, I can't really see Voyagers that are not in VT colours.

[dave47549]

Originally Posted by David A Hicks

But then, we can't exactly blame virgin for that. It's the DfT's fault for not allocating extra coaches for Virgin to use for voyagers. .

Yes we can. Virgin wanted 4/5 car toyagers, then expected DfT (i.e taxpayers) to buy extra stock to make them more suitable for their role.

At one point, VXC was receiving almost £3 million a DAY in subsidy, I think that's more than enough to order a suitable fleet in the 1st place.

[martin adamson]

But Virgin orderd the voyagrs back in 2001, I didn't travel much back then but I guess the numbers of passengers was much lower back then to how it is now, so the voyagers might have been better suited to that time.

[dave47549]

Originally Posted by David A Hicks

But Virgin orderd the voyagrs back in 2001, I didn't travel much back then but I guess the numbers of passengers was much lower back then to how it is now, so the voyagers might have been better suited to that time.

Not so. A four car toyager seats 26f/200s, five car toyager seats 26f/220s. The existing loco-hauled 7 car sets had room for 25f/332s, HST's 48f/372s (-& while the existing stock was slower, it was also a damn sight more comfortable). When 'decisions' were being made in the late 90's, these capacity shortcomings were pointed out - don't forget that VXC's business case was also based on vastly increased usage, it would have been an idea to actually order spare capacity instead of reducing it .

I do return to the earlier point that it was the DfT's fault extra stock wasn't ordered. VXC received more than enough to make adequate orders, why should the DfT fill richards pockets twice over?

[LES GIBSON]

Now that Virgin have lost the cross country franchise to Arriva, what happens to all the Pendolinos, and Voyagers, Just painted up into Arriva livery?

[martin adamson]

Originally Posted by LES GIBSON

Now that Virgin have lost the cross country franchise to Arriva, what happens to all the Pendolinos, and Voyagers, Just painted up into Arriva livery?

Virgin will keep the Pendolinos (and some Voyagers) as part of the West Coast franchise. As for the other Voyagers they will be put into this livery:

http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/ams/images/img1.jpg