NTSB Amtrak train 501 accident report

[aussiesteve]

G'day,
The NTSB have released the accident report into the Amtrak train 501 derailment at DuPont Washington state on 18 december 2017.
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/...ts/RAR1901.pdf
I have been awaiting this report and have just snavelled it and will peruse such off line shortly.
This prang has been an impetus for the completion of the PTC (Positive Train Control) system in the USA.
I am definitely not an advocate for computers on locomotives.
Knowing where you are going, ROAD KNOWLEDGE, is a fundamental facet of railroading.
But, I guess with the ever increasing train speeds and route diversions, some assistance to the hogger is necessary.
Our Queenslander high speed train flew off the tracks some moons ago due to the hogger forgetting where he was.
Steve.

[Beeyar Wunby]

I've edited my original post, as I've had time to sit down and read the first half of the report. And it's scary stuff.

Driving at 80 mph over a route the driver clearly didn't have a clue about, in the dark, and rain? That's just crazy.

Could an overspeed accident like that happen here ? Well it could happen anywhere, but we do have 2 pieces of technology to try to prevent it.

Firstly, whenever there's a reduction in Permissible Speed of 33% or more it's a requirement that an AWS magnet and warning board are placed at Service Braking Distance from the start of the lower speed. The magnet does what it always does; it sounds a little horn in the cab telling you that you must acknowledge the warning by pressing the cancelling button, otherwise the Emergency Brake will be applied automatically. But what it really means is LOOK OUT OF THE WINDOW NOW, where of course you'll see the triangular warning board which tells you to START BRAKING, and the speed that you need to get down to.

Wiki article here...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_rai...eed_indicators

Secondly we a have a speed trap on the approach to the lower speed. This is a TPWS Overspeed Sensor, which consists of a pair of radiating loops in the four foot, and a receiver and timer on board the train. The distance between the two loops determines the capture speed, such that if the train traverses both in less than ~0.9 seconds the system fires and the emergency brake is applied. And of course an Emergency Brake Application cannot be overridden. Once it fires, the train must come to a stand, and a penalty timeout occurs. Only after an elapsed time will the brakes release.

Wiki article here...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_...Warning_System

These two systems are extremely good, but anything can malfunction, and it is possible to isolate them (although this is governed by strict rules and most train companies just won't run trains in this condition). But we all go around hoping that the damn things work when they're needed.

Cheers, BW.

[aussiesteve]

G'day BW,
TUT tut on hitting that curve too hard.
You weren't attempt to make yer train into a tilt train ?
I suffered a scare while working the Silver Streak westward ho in 1989.
Zooming through Gemalla on the 90 speed, you let it coast down in speed for the 70 kph reverse curves in the cutting at the top of the slight rise.
Hit the 70 board at 71 kph just nice and commenced to power up for the climb through the reverse curve.
You dragged it over the top and shut off once out of the cutting.
BUT, E GADs what a spectacle greeted us on the second bend in the cutting.
It was a VERY HOT day and before WOLO restrictions were implemented.
The track looked like spaghetti.
I quickly shut off power and hit the anchors.
NOT emergency as I feared that would make it worse by spreading the rails even more.
We hit the buckles and the old 80 class lurched and shuddered.
Me china coffee cup flew across the cab and smashed.
We were both holding onto our seats to prevent being tossed onto the cab floor.
I was watching the car carrier wagon behind the locos attempting to fling the cars into the bush.
She finally came to a stop.
I got on the two way radio to ask the tail gunner if he was ok and if we were still on the track.
It had definitely woke him up in his caboose.
The head poe juggler got on the two way to report that the dining car was a mess, but he thought that it was still all upright on the track.
After confirming that all was ok, I released the brakes and let the train roll down hill to the Locksley block signal.
Stopping there to use the circuit phone to call the pointcop at Tarana.
I knew that there was a freighter following us.
I suggested that he close the track until it could be inspected.
But, TC opted to plonk a 20 kph speed restriction on the curves.
When we got to Parkes and went to the Pub, eventually the Lithgow crew on the freighter hoofed in.
They bellowed that hitting the buckles at 20 kph they thought that they were in the dirt.
YEH, well WE hit it at track speed 70 kph, I retorted.
Yes, there are forms of ATP ATC in use down-under.
It is planned for the NSW suburban network.
But, not yet fully implemented in the smog hollow Metrop region.
The stupid SLR, Sydney light rail does have it.
QR has it on the North Coast line now, but when the QR tilt train really tilted, such was not in action outside of the Brissy Metrop.
In the case of them buckled rails, unless the track is broken as a result, I don't think that ATP / ATC would prevent a derailment due to buckled rails.
YES, today, when ever the temp reaches 38C, WOLO restrictions are imposed to reduce train speeds.
Down in Tassie, under that hole in the ozone layer, the heat creates effects of at least 5 degrees to the actual thermometer reading.
I remember hitting some buckled track that resembled a right angle.
Only doing 30 kph at the time, and I thought that I was still going bush.
Them old EEs just lurched and groaned, but made it through by the time the train stopped.
TC bunged a 10 kph restriction on it.
The Tassie computerized safeworking system today (not in operation during my era) had a 2 kph overspeed detection.
But, after many trains were slamming to an emergency stop when the train was barely 2 kph over the speeds, management have made it a tad more generous.
So, now the computer will apply the brakes if the train is 5 kph or more over the speed.
Steve.

[Beeyar Wunby]

Yo Steve, I completely edited my first post before I saw that you'd replied, so apologies if it detracts from your post.

Yea I've seen some youtube videos of some horrendously buckled and warped track. Must be scary when you come across that unexpectedly.

We've always had issues with TPWS on the approach to buffer stops. When they were first installed, Railtrack used standard sized loops, which we now know are inaccurate at low speeds. So in the first few days of operation, almost half our drivers tripped them and were suspended until it was established that they had rolled into the platform at under 15 mph as required - and the TPWS was to blame. It was fixed eventually by using mini-grids for terminus stations, and restricting speed over those grids to <10 mph.

But it was entertaining to see our 'safety section' people running around like headless chickens (Like yourself I don't have time for kids with a degree in Behavioural Psychology who judge us so harshly without ever having been on a footplate).

Cheers, BW.

[aussiesteve]

G'day BW,
15 mph approaching a buffer stop would not be the go here in Sydney yard.
15 kph more like here.
I remember an incident when they evacuated the Concourse at Sydney terminal.
An interurban was rocketing in well above the yard speed of 25 kph.
The train did stop ok, but caused some panic.
The 15 kph was imposed after that.
The problem with Amtrak is that it shares freight roads, and Yankee freight roads don't normally have perfect pas operating conditions.
A 30 mph curve amidst high speed track on a NEWBIE built bit of track is RIDICULOUS.
The 60 kph curve amidst high speed track up in Bananaland where the QR tilt train TILTED was also ridiculous.
But, QR were retaining the old formation of the North Coast line from back when trains percolated much slower.
The QR tilter permitted a top of 160 kph in a small handful of spots.
The go here when firing with the class 6 blokes on the pas jobs was to learn the SLOW speed boards first.
That way you knew where you had to hit the anchors.
But, the NSWR had always factored in a 10 - 15 % error margin with track speed boards.
If a train can negotiate a curve at 70 kph without falling off, the actual board posted would stipulate 60 kph.
But, I notice that today here capitalistic corporations don't follow the same game plan.
Time is money and they want trains percolating as fast as possible.
So, some boards have been increased in speed by 10 - 15 %.
I have not ridden a Yankee Talgo style train, but found the German version VERY rough at high speed.
Just that single axle slamming through numerous weiche (points).
The Yankee version possessing power at both ends of the Talgo also makes me shudder.
I know how rough our XPT is on curves with the rear power car shoving the train.
Yes, we are all human and make errors at times.
Nothing can ever be totally perfect.
The DB Bad Aibling prang highlights just how a reasonably safe system (PZB) can be kyboshed by the use of substitution signals.
I am thankful that my footplate era was pre-computerization.
I enjoyed driving the thing, not having some computer tell me what to do.
Plus, the only time that I went fast was when hogging the Silver Streak or loco hauled Orange pas.
There are very few track speeds on the Central West that permit the 115 kph top loco hauled pas speed.
So, it was fun to get the wind in yer hair when you did hit them.
Otherwise, I was slogging it out on heavy freighters.
Steve.