One in the dirt at Heaton depot disrupts Newcastle train services

[Beeyar Wunby]

A train derailed today during a depot movement.

Link here... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-60833163

In the photo you'll see an associated position light (shunt signal) below the colour signal.

My 5p? Possibly a derailer 'bit' the train during an unauthorised move?

Time will tell no doubt.

John

[aussiesteve]

G'day BW,
Was this a "run-away" or shunting incident ?
Do them emus have spring parker brakes or the old ratchet (or wheel) handbrake ?
There was a run-away in Lithgow storage yard some moons ago.
An 8 car double decker V set decided to depart during the darkness and rolled through the jack points into the dirt.
Management started spruiking SABOTAGE.
But, it was a simple result of the urban hogger not applying sufficient hand brakes.
Some V setters had a spring parker, but most had the almost useless ratchet hand brake.
All was ok while the train remained on the air, keeping the brakes applied.
But, at some stage there was a power outage to the siding overhead.
The pans dropped and the brakes leaked off and away she rolled.
1 in 150 grade in Lithgow top yard and reception plus storage sidings.
Only the front V setter car hit the dirt as it was rolling slowly.
Steve.

[Beeyar Wunby]

Yo Steve.

I suspect that this train was being driven. I saw a similar thing at Brighton many moons ago. When the leading carriage dropped off the road the driver fell over (he was standing up on a class 319 which had a tip-up seat). By the time he got back to the desk to apply the brake the second car had also come off and both were tipped at angle of about 30 degrees. Very sad to see.

As you suggest, nowadays all EMUs have spring parking brakes, operated off the Brake Reservoirs. If the air bleeds out of the reservoir, the spring releases and pushes a rod activating the disc brake pads.

Here's a story about these. I knew a driver once who got an emergency brake application on an 8 car. (2 x 4) It was the Rush Hour and at the time the company policy wanted you to be moving again in 5 mins max, which is ridiculous. Anyhow this driver checked most of the train, but not the rear car. They then operated the safety override and got moving again. When they reached the part of the route where 2 tracks widen to 4 they noticed that the drivers of passing trains were flashing their headlights and sounding their horns. They looked back and saw smoke pouring from the rear car!

This driver had been taught (as was I) that if there is a leak on the Main Reservoir Pipe it will be blindingly obvious as you'll see a reduction on the MRP gauge and also be able to hear it pissing out when you get near it. But what had happened was that that the knuckle joint on the MR pipes between the penultimate and rear cars had sprung apart. So because of the self-closing star valves in the pipe joints the Main Res pipe had stayed sealed but the air in the rear car had leaked away (as a result of brake application and door operations), until the point where the parking brake had started to apply.

Sneaky Huh? I've never heard of the air pipe joints on a Multiple Unit popping apart ever. I suspect that they'd been taken apart at the depot for some reason and and not put back together properly.

The driver got a massive rollocking, but no points on their licence - which was nice. Not long after the company dropped their '5 minute max' policy (I think they themselves got a rollocking from the DFT for pressurising drivers into making unsafe decisions).

But if you do something silly in this job and don't hurt anyone you never get to hear the end of it. For the rest of their days this driver was known as 'Smokey'.

Happy days, John

[aussiesteve]

Cooee BW,
AH, star valves in air hoses.
I have no idea if we have anything like that here on the smog hollow squirts these days.
All of our BP and MR taps have a vent to exhaust air trapped in the hoses, when the taps are closed.
That to avoid a sudden rush of air when separating the hoses.
Pulling hoses apart when the locos are detached or the train shunted is verboten.
As damage can occur to the hose couplings, or actually pull the hose out of the tap.
Though, I still see / hear this happening.
And, now that I ponder about it, I think that the EEs in Van Diemens Land with Davies Metcalfe air brake had them.
I kinda recollect a sprung seal inside the MR hose heads.
BUT, as that is now 15 YEARS ago, I could be wrong, as me grey matter is now very grey.
The only individually coupled car sets still running around smog hollow are the C and K sets.
The rest are permanently coupled in four car blocks and use Scharfenberg couplers to amalgamate into 8 car sets.
I don't know if the permanently coupled cars have hoses with coupling heads or are simply solid hoses between the cars.
I have espied a four car interurban, which are still individual cars, broke in two when a coupler murray key broke.
As to burst air hoses, I don't think that occurred very often on the squirts or interurbans.
We copped it a number of times on freighters, until heavier quality air hoses were acquired.
Smog hollow squirts run with 425 kpa brake pipe, while freighters run at 500 kpa ( 70 psi) BP pressure.
Spring parkers, yep they are the go for keeping things stationary.
Though, I was amused when reading the prang report into the Ardglen banker loco run-away episode.
The spring parker on them GE things being el cheapo and only applying on two axles with single brake blocks.
Thereby NOT to be relied upon when on steep grades when the independent brake is released.
The combo of independent and spring parker capable of holding the loco stationary.
But, when changing ends and cutting out the brake valves, the driver accidentally released the independent.
GOOD BYE bank locos on the falling 1 in 40.
Yes, looking back was a facet of dinkum railrodding here, to check for sticking brakes etc.
But, not everyone bothered.
Our Tangarbage squirts in smog hollow were a worry in wet weather.
The wheel slide sensor knocking off the EP as well as the Westinghouse to prevent skidded wheels.
Numerous Tangarbage sets snotted things being unable to stop.
Hitting emergency was of no use what so ever.
BUT, you could stop them if hitting the spring parkers.
That wheel slide sensor did not prevent the spring parkers from applying.
But, the panicking squirt hogger had to remember this facet in time.
Computers, PHOOEY.
Give control of the train back to the driver.
OK, the occasional driver might stuff up, but the stinking computer ain't no save all solution.
Steve.

[Beeyar Wunby]

Yo Steve

Yes I always found it odd that whilst the vehicles in our EMUs were bolted together with semi-permanent couplings, the air pipes were flexible quick release types with self sealing star valves. However there were MRPICs (Main Res Pipe Isolating Cocks - referred to colloquially as 'Mister Picks') on the end of each vehicle to shut it all off if the hoses burst, and they were self-venting at the hose end.

I've put a piccy of Star Valves below. As you can probably work out, they're the ones pointed to with light blue arrows, and are shown here on the end of unit electrical connector box which I'm sure you're familiar with in concept. The star valves in the Main Res Pipe hoses are very similar.

And you mentioned Wheelslide shenanigans. I don't think about the railway much since I left, EXCEPT for when I get up on a damp autumn morning and remember the apprehension of taking an early morning train out, knowing that I had to be VERRRRRRY careful not to slide through stations when the wheels picked up.

And then when you rolled slowly into a station some **** would lean out in front of you and tap his watch.

Every time someone did that I knocked 10 mph off my already slow speed.

Hah. Take care, John

[aussiesteve]

Howdy BW,
Taken a gander at the image of yer coupler system.
Yes, them star valves do remind me of what I am pondering was inside the heads of the Tassie EE MR hoses.
Your coupler dingus is a tad different to the standard Scharfenberg utilized on your smog hollow emus.
Hoy, that bloke thumping his watch at yer tardiness would be hitting you with his brolly and briefcase if you ran the train any slower.
Yes, most cattle would whinge at a train running late due to weather conditions.
But, they would whinge much more if it shot through their station not being able to stop.
As the old hands spruiked here moons ago, YOU control the train, do let IT control you.
Steve.

[Beeyar Wunby]

Hi Steve.

Yea pretty much everything here is Sharfenburgers now. That pic was from a Class 313 (now deceased, thank Gawd). They were so old that they had an air-drven cam shaft which switched around the resistance windings. When you pulled the handle you could hear it go "clankety-clank" a dozen times under the train.

In fact that used to be one of the favourite questions for know-it-all trainees. "Which of the following traction types have cam shafts? Steam, Diesel, Electric."

And of course they'd miss out the electric.

Laters.....John.

[aussiesteve]

Ahoy BW,
Cam shafts, now you are talking my technology.
One of my reasons for liking our 85 and 86 class buzz boxes, the use of pilot motor driven cam shafts for notching.
On a heavy grade you had to manually notch them out of resistance.
9 banks of resistance.
On a very light grade with a light load train, you could just whip the controller into notch 4 and let them step out themselves.
But, that was no fun at all.
You could also manually notch up on the older smog hollow squirts and interurbans with cam shafts and resistance.
But, once they went to chopper gate rheostat control, you only had the individual four notches, five on an interurban.
In wet weather on the Big Hill climbing away from a station with a cam car urban, you could notch up gradually.
Only notching completely out of series resistance for full field when no more wheel slipping occurred.
But, with a chopper gate urban, you had to drop back from full field series (notch 2) to starting series (notch 1).
Allow the wheel slip to cease and then shove it into notch 2 again, but by that stage you had virtually stopped.
And, when they combined cam cars with chopper cars in the same set, E GADs, bang crunch wallop.
Mind you, with a cam car urban or squirt, you could NOT remain in notch 1 for very long.
NO resistance cooling fans so you could cook the resistance if remaining in notch 1 for too long.
Rattling with the controller in notch 2, after having notched up to weakies was verboten.
Notch two being a more comfy possie of the controller handle, it also being the deadman control.
Notch 5 being further away from you requiring more oomph to hold down the controller handle dead man.
BUT, should you get a No Volt Relay trip under an air gap or section insulator when in notch 2 it would go back to notch 1.
OK, if occurring on the car you was in, but you would not know this occurring on a trailing motor car.
Manually notching up, 1 up to 2 then back to 1 to hold, repeating until all series resistance was removed.
Notch 3 being parallel full field.
Notch 4 being Weak field.
Notch 5 on an urban being second stage Weakies; WHACKO, when in notch 5 on an urban you were FLYING.
With our squirts and urbans all being double deckers from the mid 1990s, the cams were in the roof above the cab.
The big 1500 vDC main fuse, high speed circuit breaker is also up there.
Blow a main fuse / circuit breaker and you definitely know it, KABOOM in the roof.
The high speed breaker being inside the high tension room of an 85 or 86'er you still heard it, but not as loud.
Should yer 85 or 86er get stuck in resistance and not notch out, you went back to spin the cam shafts.
Had to do this a couple of times when a novice driver was just whipping it into notch 4 and she stalled.
YOU SHOULD BE MANUALLY notching out, I barked at him.
The cam shafts had become jammed.
Shut her down, drop the pans, grab the reverser to unlock the high tension room door.
Go inside and flick the cam shafts with yer boot.
Once reset to Zero, go back out and fire her up and he whips it straight into four again.
E GADs.
Manually notching up on 85 / 86ers, notch 2 was holding.
You could drop her down to notch 1 to reinstate a bank of resistance to arrest wheel slip and back to 2.
But, once stepped fully out of resistance, you had to shut off power to recommence back in resistance.
The old Metro Vic butter boxes were fully manual with 19 resistance notches.
You could reinstate resistance on them after going to notch 20 full field without shutting off.
One old bloke was great at mimicking the butter box wheel slip sound.
You woulda got her mobile and eventually stepped out of resistance battling wheel slip.
Letting the amps settle before going for weakies or second gear, he would make the wheel slip sound.
He knew that he got you when you put the controller back into resistance notches.
He only got me the one time before I cottoned on.
But he bragged about getting others many times in the dark on wet nights.
Bring back them good ole days, they were fun.
Steve.