Diesel "clag" ?

[DSY011]

Haven't touched a fag for over 35 years now Steve. I gave up fags over 45 years ago. Then changed to a pipe. I said to myself, "if I can give up fags, then I can give up the pipe as well, which I'm proud to say I did within a year. The problem was that Rhodesia was a Tobacco producing country and we could buy a pack of 20 for 1/-, or 5p in todays UK money, or 6d for the cheap non filtered fags. Like a lot of Ex. smokers I can't stand the smell of fags or most pipes.

[aussiesteve]

AH, the cherry rub pipe blend, I did go through many packs of that.
But, me jaw ached all the time that a pipe was hanging out of it.
The height of sophistication it was presumed to have a pipe hanging out of yer gob.
And, yes I also chewed on cigars.
You are getting better every day off the gaspers, so say the medicos.
Yes, the pong of passive smoke did annoy.
But, by far the worst side effect of giving up them gaspers was the crawling skin when at a pub still enshrouded in gasper plumes.
It takes many moons for society to alter previously accepted attitudes.
I reflect upon images from my childhood.
The open fireplace mantle at my Grand Parents abode in the country.
A pipe rack on that mantle along with the ubiquitous mantle pendulum clock.
Cooking toast on long forks in front of that fire.
NET ZERO 2050 will definitely force some images to vanish.
That will include me beloved aussie alco weasels.
Steve.

[DSY011]

Hi Steve, my mother was a smoker in all the time I was a kid, my father did smoke during WWII in the navy, but gave it up when the war ended and he meet my mother. Mum gave up smoking just before I left home to join the army, but I still smoked, (a pipe) in the army. I gave up smoking after I came to the UK. I paid 1/- for a pack of 20 Pall Mell in Rhodesia, but I was dammed if I was going to pay nearly 3/- for a pack of 20 in the UK. So I gave up in 1970 and still don't smoke. The one thing that surprised me was that it did not worry me if others smoked around me.

[Beeyar Wunby]

Just accidently landed on this YouTube item...

Link....37 thrash with flames

Is there a reason for doing this, or is the driver just a tit?

(I do know that this is an unofficial method used to clean out Diesel Particulate Filters on modern cars).

Cheers, John

[hereward]

The Commer two stoke lorry would do that periodically, smoke, flames, and sparks, it was de-coking itself.

[Master Cutler]

Originally Posted by hereward

The Commer two stoke lorry would do that periodically, smoke, flames, and sparks, it was de-coking itself.

The Commer knocker, next to the Foden, was a tribute to twin bell crank single crankshaft opposed piston two stroke Diesel engine trucks.
I lived in Dyserth North Wales until I was ten years old and remember the noise and fog generated by the knockers going down Waterfalls Hill in first gear with a full 8 tonne load of limestone from Dyserth Quarry on route for Shotton steel woks.
I still love the sound and smell of a two stroke Diesel under full load.

[aussiesteve]

G'day BW,
I have managed to grab a very low res version of the video clip to view at home.
Me el cheapo www runs outa puff shortly and I still have a little data credit loitering.
I am not going any where near the local library due to our plague infections skyrocketing.
Viewing the clip, I am unable to determine if any gradient exists facing the train.
My ONLY exposure to EEs be the ones that I drove down in Van Diemens Land.
Them EEs performing a traction amps cycling when powering at or near maximum.
I am not sure why, but may be due to the type of load regulator employed.
And may also be a facet of Short Time Ratings.
It could also be a facet of the donk governor employed.
Our 44 class mark one beasties had the GE governor.
And, those units had a slightly irregular idling sound.
Whereas the Woodward Governor used on all others had an even idling sound.
EMD, Alco, Cat weasels plus buzzboxes that I worked do not cycle traction amps.
Though, our 86 class could reduce demand after exceeding the max amps for a period.
Short Time Ratings are utilized on DC traction weasels.
The maximum working traction amps may be exceeded for a short period or minutes.
If the loco is worked beyond that period, the traction motors can cook.
Most four strokers can suffer from Turbo Lag.
There are two types of donk boosting, turbo and supercharger.
A supercharger is mechanically driven, while a turbo is exhaust gas driven.
Generally, the exhaust driven versions can suffer from turbo lag, and belch out plumes of black exhaust.
A white grey exhaust is evidence of a COLD donk, burning oil, which can occur until the donk achieves operating temperature.
Seals within the donk will become tight again when working temp is achieved.
Turbo lag can occur when an idling donk is revved to produce traction oomph after a long period of idling.
Grabbing a fist full of notches suddenly causing a lag in the fuel burning and turbo operation.
This can also occur if the loco is notched up and down repetitively within a short period.
A sick donk can also produce black exhaust due to incorrect fuel consumption when unused fuel is expelled through the turbo.
Exhaust flames occur when the fuel burning mix is too rich and again excess fuel is blown out like a Back Fire.
The fuel igniting due to the different temp between the donk and atmosphere.
A four stroker turbo unit burning rich under full load can light the nite sky up with exhaust sparks.
SO, either yer class 37 hogger is manually notching up and down to maintain a certain road speed.
Slightly stupid, as he could simply run at a set notch that will haul the train regardless of speed.
OR, the class 37 is sick and requires maintenance
Either way, any repetitive increase and decrease in donk revs can result in turbo lag, and incorrect fuel consumption.
Notching up one at a time allowing the donk revs and traction amps to settle reduces the turbo lag event.
Plus also provides a constant pull on the couplers and reduces slack action.
Then, when needing to reduce speed, notch back one at a time.
BUT come on, what fun is there in that.
RIP and TEAR and get em to belch out plumes of black smoke.
Honorary soot belchers.
Steve.

[Beeyar Wunby]

Hi Steve, thanks for that - very interesting.

Originally Posted by Steve

A supercharger is mechanically driven, while a turbo is exhaust gas driven.

Well there you go, I didn't know that. Everyday's a school day, especially when you've spent your railway career on 'squeaky clean but oh so dull' EMUs.

I remember being told by some 'East Coast Racing Hero' drivers that the EE Class 55 (Deltics) were absolute swine to Ease Up with. You'd open up gently - nothing. Give it another notch - nothing. Give it another notch - nothing. Then BOOM all the horses came out at once. Still they had good buffers in those days, and you can promise the passengers in First Class that the red wine will come out of their best suit if they put some salt on it quickly enough.

I have the BR Driver's Manual for the 37 that a colleague gave me when he was cleaning out his locker. It's fascinating stuff, that 1950s technology. Nothing that can't be brought back to life with a cheery swing of a club hammer.

Anyway I hope ya having a decent New Year and the plague hasn't got ya. I copped the Omicron thing recently, about a fortnight after I'd had the latest booster. It was not too bad, but I'm glad I'd been jabbed. Bleeding typical though. I went out sociably for the first time in at least six months and I bagged the bogie prize. Still that's one more for my library of antibodies I guess.

Keep safe...John

[aussiesteve]

Cooee BW,
Not good that you copped the plague, but at least you were boosted hence not suffering seriously.
Yes, the plague is going berserk everywhere.
I wonder what will happen here in four months time when we begin to shiver.
Our plague is now the worst that it has ever been, and we are in summer time.
So, I am still hiding from the plague here as best as possible.
I got boosted just afore Santa time, and would guess that we will require a fourth jab prior to shivering time.
Bathurst council put on some pops and bangs at 2100 on New Years Eve at the showground.
But, I did not attend, I could hear it from home, and watched the smog hollow pops and bangs on tv.
AH, you got the class 37 ops manual.
You might do some research reading for me while you are recovering from the plague.
Firstly, does it mention either a supercharger or turbo ? (I am guessing a turbo).
That will answer one question regarding yer black exhaust belching video clip.
Secondly, what Governor is mentioned; GE, Woodward, Other ?
The Throttle (Master Controller), is that Notched, OR, Sweep style ?
The Van Demonian EEs had either depending on the class.
The Y class had a notched throttle, while the Z, ZA, ZC, ZB had the sweep type.
Notching up and down with the sweep type is a tad more awkward determining the desired traction amps.
And, is much easier to cause a greater donk revs alteration if not careful.
Prior to my deportation, the only weasel that I played with having the sweep throttle were the 73 class.
They are diesel hydraulic with Cat donks.
Your EE anti-slip brake is a nightmare.
That naturally applies the loco brakes when wheel slip is detected and CANNOT be removed.
So, you are suddenly not only fighting the steep gradient, but also the loco brakes slammed on.
When that slams on, it can also cause an increase in donk revs resulting from the traction amps demand altering.
With Westinghouse brakes, IF the wheel slip becomes severe, you can slightly whip on and off the independent.
You still have control of how much independent is used and for how long.
Though, in the video clip I did not squiz the tell tale sign of sand puffing out onto the rails to indicate wheel slip.
Mind you, the video clip resolution grabbed is not very good, so details are slightly unclear.
As to yer BR class 55 Deltics, they had a pair of Napier donks which were Two Strokers from memory.
Not only the problem of governor sync for dual donk revs and generator output, but also the "rubber band" effect.
With our EMD things here for shunting, you had to wait for the rubber band to wind up before they would move.
VERY tardy to respond for low notch shunting they was compared to our glorious Aussie Alcos.
Put an Aussie Alco in gear, take a notch and release the independent and it is OFF and running.
So, YES, I would imagine that controlling a Deltic for low speed shunting would be awkward.
We would load up the EMD amps necessary with the independent brake applied.
Then once sufficient amps were being produced, gradually release the independent, but not all the way off.
Controlling the loco speed with the independent brake.
Notching up and down on an EMD to control loco speed was not a good result.
Shunting night time Mail cattle trains here was a required skill to prevent snotting it too hard.
Plus, hooking up the Silver Streak car carrier wagon to the front in smog hollow yard.
Our 86 class buzzboxes would suddenly amp right up in demand when train speed was about to stop.
When powering to a stop due to a rising gradient.
Shutting off would result in a thump and coupler slack run-in action, (cop that in the dining car).
So, with the train brakes applied to stop, you then gradually applied the independent.
With both brakes applied, you then shut off power.
There would be a huge BANG when the high speed circuit breaker tripped.
But, there was no resulting thump to the train.
Eventually, it was made ILLEGAL to shunt a cattle train with any cattle on board.
That also applies to our emu and dmu sets being amalgamating, kick out the cattle first, then shunt.
Can't have the claret pouring out of the cattle snozes.
AH, I do miss them good ole days.
Steve.

[Beeyar Wunby]

Yo Steve.

Seems I had a bit of a BrainFart.

The only manual I have is for a Type 4, not a 3. Which isn't much good.

Because good old BR played a fast one on me the blighters, and things aren't what I thought they were. I was given a lovely green plastic bound cover labelled "Train Crew manual - Class 37 Refurbished Locomotives". But underneath in much smaller writing it says Drivers Fault Finding Data. I hadn't noticed that.

So I'd hoped it was a book saying how everything worked, and what was connected to what, whereas it's actually what we nowadays call a Matrix. It's full of schematics showing 10 things to do when the Blue Light comes on.

So not any help, sorry.

If it's any consolation, I'm pretty sure the controller on the 37 is a 4-notch type though, like most UK diseasals.

I do also have a book called The BR Diesel Engine Driver's book. It tends not to be too specific, and shows diagrams of 'a typical generator' rather than being specific, but I can have a search through it and see if I can glean any details.

In fact it will be a nice little project as the WX here has turned cold at last. I can break open the Bells and sit down for a long read.

And at least we've had the Solstice now, so we'll be climbing slowly back towards longer days slowly.

Anyhoo keep the Bodgie Budgie safe,

John