DB Schenker restructuring

[Dynamo]

I find it rather ironic that you often tell us you are against privatisation and would prefer for the railways to be re-nationalised, yet two of your biggest gripes, namely Driver Only Operation and The Trainmans Concept, were both introduced by the British Railways Board in the 1980's.

[HM181]

Originally Posted by Dynamo

I find it rather ironic that you often tell us you are against privatisation and would prefer for the railways to be re-nationalised, yet two of your biggest gripes, namely Driver Only Operation and The Trainmans Concept, were both introduced by the British Railways Board in the 1980's.

Last week, 22/06/10, I was in London at RMT HQ, for a personal meeting with Bob Crow.
In the conversation Mr Crow said that of all the Railway companies he has to deal with, EWS/ DB are the worst company he has to deal with.
EWS/DB only want to deal with ASLEF, and ASLEF do not care who gets unemployed so long as they massive pay rises.
That has been a true all my railway service.

[Anon Mouse]

The RMT are not great too....a lot of local level representation is curroupt and out for their own gain. During my disciplinary I got represented by an ATCU rep (i'm a card carrying member of the RMT)....I respect Bob Crow but the RMT has some serious problems at local level..........

[HM181]

Originally Posted by Anon Mouse

The RMT are not great too....a lot of local level representation is curroupt and out for their own gain. During my disciplinary I got represented by an ATCU rep (i'm a card carrying member of the RMT)....I respect Bob Crow but the RMT has some serious problems at local level..........

I have represented and advised EWS/DB/ RMT members on many occasions.
With EWS diciplinary hearing were an everyday happening.
I also attended Railtrack investigations on such things as derailments SPADS and other happenings.
I once had to travel down to London Victoria Station for an enquiry into run away train, which smashed into the back end of a Class 66.
This was done in my time at my expense, To me this did not matter as my attendance saved a young shunters job, who is still working on the railway.
That is thanks enough.

[Anon Mouse]

Originally Posted by HM181

I have represented and advised EWS/DB/ RMT members on many occasions.
With EWS diciplinary hearing were an everyday happening.
I also attended Railtrack investigations on such things as derailments SPADS and other happenings.
I once had to travel down to London Victoria Station for an enquiry into run away train, which smashed into the back end of a Class 66.
This was done in my time at my expense, To me this did not matter as my attendance saved a young shunters job, who is still working on the railway.
That is thanks enough.

I did not mean any disrespect to you, I am a Trade Unionist to the core and will always stick with my Union, The RMT. They may not be perfect, but I'ld much rather be with them than the ATCU!

[Dynamo]

Originally Posted by HM181

Last week, 22/06/10, I was in London at RMT HQ, for a personal meeting with Bob Crow.
In the conversation Mr Crow said that of all the Railway companies he has to deal with, EWS/ DB are the worst company he has to deal with.
EWS/DB only want to deal with ASLEF, and ASLEF do not care who gets unemployed so long as they massive pay rises.
That has been a true all my railway service.

First off, I don't always have a lot of time for Bob Crow. He may be a personal friend of yours but I've often been unhappy at the stances he's put up, and his latest idea that we should all go on a general strike because of government cuts has really turned me against him. If the government wants to bring in the cuts, then let them do it. The people who voted Tory and Lib Dem obviously wanted them to do it so let them go ahead. If it all goes belly up because of the cuts then fine, but don't give the Torys the chance to turn round and say it only went belly up because the unions were playing up. He isn't the only union leader I haven't had a lot of time for though, including our own beloved Ray Buckton who led us into the stupid Flexibable Rostering dispute in the early 80's. A dispute that did nothing to avert the policy and did nothing more than take two weeks wages out of my pay packet.

Having said all that, I agree that a few staff have been treated shabbily by EWS, but from what I can see, it hasn't been the norm. I'm not involved with union work though so I don't see the other side of negotiations. However, I also believe that EWS were stuck between a rock and a hard place. I used to read Ed Burkhardts interviews and his main philosphy behind creating the company was to have trainload freight in much the same way as Speedlink were doing. That was scuppered initially by Ian Brown poisoning the well when he spat his dummy out at not being able to lead RFD. If he'd left things alone, then maybe yards like Healey Mills and Tees and Tyne and Tinsley might have been able to have a bright future with lots of wagon marshalling to do with lots of staff in employment to do it, but instead, those yards are shadows of their former selves. Almost ghost towns.

Another blow for wagonload at EWS was when the numpties at Wisconsin sacked Burkhardt when his back was turned. That to me was probably the blackest day in EWS history.

Getting back to the issue of how general staff are treated by EWS, it was pretty clear early doors that very few staff other than drivers were going to be required by the company. Ever since the diesels were introduced in the late 50's it was pretty obvious that job numbers were going to be cut in the following years, starting off with the Single Manning Agreement which said goodbye to a heck of a lot of footplate staff, for the simple reason that they weren't required to shovel a few tons of coal every shift anymore. I started as a Drivers Assistant in 1978 and it was clear from day one that I didn't really have a job to do. I'd climb on the loco at the beginning of the shift, and climb off it at the end, and do bugger all inbetween, apart from watch the world go by, crack a few jokes with the driver, and sleep. Sometimes I'd do a bit of driving so the driver could sleep, but that was it. It wasn't until I became a passed man in 1981 that I could say that I had a proper job, and that was only on the occasional day when I was promoted temporally.

The only reason I was employed was so that when the time came, I could step into the driving seat. In those days, it was quite a long apprenticeship requiring 6 weeks in the classroom at the start, and then at least two years riding about on trains to get the full measure of the job before going on a six month MP12 course to get the driving ticket. These days, thanks initially to the Drivers Restructuring Initiative, which you have already said you disliked, but as I pointed out, was actually introduced by nationalised British Rail, the training period to become a driver has been drastically reduced, and rightly so.

So these days, we don't have guards on the trains thanks mainly to the wonders of modern communication systems, and improved vehicle designs. We have little use for yards because there isn't the individual wagonload traffic that there used to be, and on top of all this, EWS has to compete with companies like GBRf and Freightliner and the still nationalised DBS for traffic. The first of those two companies mainly only employ drivers because they are companies who started off from scratch and didn't need to make massive cuts. EWS has had to compete with them and their cherry picking, AND get staffing levels down at the same time. I imagine that Bob Crowe has very little to do with the new companies because very few people who work for them will be in his union in the first place.

It looks to me like its easy to criticise the company who had all the extra baggage on board at the beginning rather than the companies who didn't want to have the extra baggage. Has Bob Crowe been on at Freightliner Heavy Haul and GBRf demanding they should employ people who aren't really needed, or does he only have a go at EWS because they want to get rid of employees that aren't needed? It looks very much like the latter to me. If EWS bowed to his wishes then they'd need to pay out a load more for their staff, which would mean they'd need to increase prices (the companies coffers aren't a bottomless pit you know), so in no time at all they'd end up having no traffic at all and we'd all be out of a job. What would be the point in that? Bob Crowe still wouldn't be any happier because he'd have even less members, unless he feels that demise of EWS/DBS would be a price worth paying.

[HM181]

Mr Crow is not a pal of mine,he is the General Secretary of the RMT Trade Union.
Any comments you wish to put to Mr Crow send them to him not me.
I went down to Unity House to have my long service badge awarded to me. This should have taken place in 2006, but on the day of bob Crows visit to my Branch, I was flying over the Atlantic to Florida, so I got my badge in the Post.
I will repeat my assertion yet again that EWS/DB et al are one of the worst employers on the railway, and that is an assessment reached by myself from bitter experience with the management of this company.
One good thing has happened that the person in charge has gone back to the land of maple leaves and Eskimos. For me that is one of the best moves EWS/DB have taken in the whole history of this nasty led company.
If you have no knowledge of such things, open you eyes and ears you may learn some thing.
You will understand what is going on when they come for you, and like the rest you will become a statistic with good memories shattered by the inept management of this company.
If you want Bob Crows Email just ask me, then you can talk to the horses mouth about level playing field PLC, and how it effects people.

[LesG]

I think its time this thread was locked by the mods,

It started off as a EWS/DBS restructuring and appears to have turned into a slagging match about Bob Crow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Les.

p.s As a DBS Driver I have deliberatley stayed out of this,.

[HM181]

Originally Posted by LesG

I think its time this thread was locked by the mods,

It started off as a EWS/DBS restructuring and appears to have turned into a slagging match about Bob Crow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Les.

p.s As a DBS Driver I have deliberatley stayed out of this,.

Mr Crow handed me my long service badge personally.
If the OP has a problem with Mr Crow, he should take that up with him.
The bait was set and grabbed with both hands.
Why should this thread be closed, as it should represent the full spectrum of peoples views or are we about to burn the books?

The end.

[Dynamo]

Originally Posted by LesG

I think its time this thread was locked by the mods,

It started off as a EWS/DBS restructuring and appears to have turned into a slagging match about Bob Crow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Les.

p.s As a DBS Driver I have deliberatley stayed out of this,.

I didn't intend for it to become a slagging match about Bob Crowe. I only mentioned him and stated my point of view because it seemed like because Bob Crowe had said something then it must be right, but I don't see things that way. Now I'm told I don't open my eyes and ears. The point is, I see and hear things and form my own opinions, just like everyone else has a right to do. I was mainly trying to put some meat on the bones of what I believe, but most of the points I've made have been ignored. I don't need to be told what to think or say though.