Northern to install Automated Ticket Gates.

[martin adamson]

Originally Posted by hstudent

Was it Platform 13 or 14 at Manchester Piccadilly (the ones at the side) that you used? Normally your told to wait in the 'lounge' if your train isn't one of the next two from either platform as those platforms are extremly busy at certain times.

It is platforms 13 and 14 that are used for North bound trains. I didnlt get quizzed onmy Blacpool journey at Manchester, jst at Preston. It was on a journey I did to Chesterfield that I got quizzed at Manchester. I was going onto platform 4 for a service to Sheffield, but it wasnlt in yet and in theplatform was a 323. I guessed that the ticket inspector would know that I was waiting for the later 158 (think only 10 minutes), ut he looked at the ticket with hesitation, I then explained I was atfer the Cleephrpes train.

[tkboomer2]

Originally Posted by swisstrains

I don't think ticket machines are the answer at unmanned country stations because they are too susceptable to vandalism as the railways discovered to its cost a few years ago when some machines in Cheshire were wrecked within hours of being installed.

It's not the rural stations in Cheshire like Mobberley, Ashley and Delamere that have problems with vandalism, most of those are are in very good condition. It's stations in small towns like Knutsford and Northwich that are staffed part of the time but not late in the evenings that have problems with vandalism.

Also Northern installing ticket gates at big stations where random ticket checks are already carried out won't make any difference to people starting and ending their journeys at smaller stations.

[swisstrains]

By all means have ticket machines at the likes of Mobberley, Ashley and Delamere if you think that they will be safe from vandalism but why are you so opposed to barriers at the main stations?
Having ticket machines at the small stations doesn't mean that people will use them.

[tkboomer2]

Originally Posted by swisstrains

By all means have ticket machines at the likes of Mobberley, Ashley and Delamere if you think that they will be safe from vandalism but why are you so opposed to barriers at the main stations?
Having ticket machines at the small stations doesn't mean that people will use them.

I'm not opposed to ticket barriers I'm just saying that many people trying to board trains at stations like Manchester Piccadilly, Liverpool Lime Street and Leeds without tickets finish up having to purchase a ticket anyway.

I'm not saying that there does have to be ticket machines at those mentioned stations. (It probably wouldn't be profitable to have machines at Ashley or Delamere.) I'm just saying that the really rural stations in Cheshire don't get problems with vandalism, it's usually the more urban stations with limited staffing hours.

[swisstrains]

Originally Posted by tkboomer2

I'm not opposed to ticket barriers I'm just saying that many people trying to board trains at stations like Manchester Piccadilly, Liverpool Lime Street and Leeds without tickets finish up having to purchase a ticket anyway.

My apologies. I attributed the anti-barrier comments to you instead of the thread starter "hstudent". He is another Mid-Cheshire passenger......Do you know him by any chance?

Originally Posted by tkboomer2

I'm not saying that there does have to be ticket machines at those mentioned stations. (It probably wouldn't be profitable to have machines at Ashley or Delamere.) I'm just saying that the really rural stations in Cheshire don't get problems with vandalism, it's usually the more urban stations with limited staffing hours.

I can accept that these stations don't have problems with vandalism at the moment but would that change if the local louts had ticket machines to play with? We will probably never know.

[tkboomer2]

Originally Posted by swisstrains

I can accept that these stations don't have problems with vandalism at the moment but would that change if the local louts had ticket machines to play with? We will probably never know.

Due to the location of the railway lines most of the people who use village stations in Cheshire live two or more miles from the station. I don't think vandals would walk that far just to break a ticket machine. They put cash machines in rural locations and they don't get vandalised.

By the way I'm saying that I don't think village stations have problems with vandalism in the same way that larger stations do. I'm not saying ticket machines should be installed at rural stations with few passengers, as they wouldn't be econmically viable.

[hstudent]

Originally Posted by swisstrains

I don't think ticket machines are the answer at unmanned country stations because they are too susceptable to vandalism as the railways discovered to its cost a few years ago when some machines in Cheshire were wrecked within hours of being installed.

I found out that the ticket machines that were installed on the Mid Cheshire line were at Greenbank and Navigation Rd. Greenbank does have problems with vandalism but isn't a rural station, it's on the edge of the town of Northwich and located within walking distance of 5 schools and a further education college. Navigation Rd's ticket machine was recently removed by Northern Rail because it was 'non econocially viable' to keep it there.

I'm not saying that ticket gates musn't be installed. I'm just questioning whether it would be the best use of Northern Rails' revenue to install them at stations like Manchester Piccadilly and Leeds where many fare dodgers are caught as it stands.

I'm aware people board trains at staffed stations without tickets. There was an example of this on a train I boarded this morning, a group of high school pupils boarded a train at Hale and hid in the toilets until the train got to Knutsford, where they were alighting. The conductor was aware of this and it held up the train for five minutes while the conductor took their details.

For most people travelling before 9:30 the reason people board trains without tickets is that there is no advantage to the passenger of purchasing a ticket prior to boarding the train (except to save the conductor time and not see other passengers fare dogeding.) Conductors can refuse to issue cheap day returns, savers and tickets with railcard discounts to people who board at a staffed station without a ticket, but obviously that dosen't apply to most journeys made before 9:30.

[swisstrains]

Originally Posted by hstudent

........................For most people travelling before 9:30 the reason people board trains without tickets is that there is no advantage to the passenger of purchasing a ticket prior to boarding the train (except to save the conductor time and not see other passengers fare dogeding.) ........................

I'm sorry hstudent. I'm a bit confused (which isn't unusual at my age )
Are you saying that because there is no financial incentive to use the ticket office that people deliberately get on the train without a ticket?

[hstudent]

Originally Posted by swisstrains

Are you saying that because there is no financial incentive to use the ticket office that people deliberately get on the train without a ticket?

Well that was suggested as the reason in the North West RUS as why many station's actual passenger figures are a lot higher than what is statistically recorded.

There are posters at stations saying that if the ticket office if open you can't buy cheap day returns or savers or obtain railcard discounts if purchasing a ticket on the train. However, that obviously has no effect on a lot of passengers who travel before 9:30.

It also could be because some people are lazy and enter a station from the other side to where the ticket office is located and can't be bothered to go across to the ticket office.

[swisstrains]

Originally Posted by hstudent

Well that was suggested as the reason in the North West RUS as why many station's actual passenger figures are a lot higher than what is statistically recorded.

There are posters at stations saying that if the ticket office if open you can't buy cheap day returns or savers or obtain railcard discounts if purchasing a ticket on the train. However, that obviously has no effect on a lot of passengers who travel before 9:30.

It also could be because some people are lazy and enter a station from the other side to where the ticket office is located and can't be bothered to go across to the ticket office.

Thanks for that.
It's yet another example of people taking the option which requires the least effort on their part and sod everyone else.
I suppose the railways have brought much of this on themselves by doing away with so many manned-stations and having to introduce conductors. Even if their station has a ticket office it sounds like many now regard the conductor as the normal means of purchasing a ticket. For many people there is also the added incentive that the conductor might be too busy to get to them. No wonder Northern are looking at ways to reduce fare evasion.