"Tram-train"

[JEB-245584/2]

The only problem a Metro-Link tram has is wheel profile, orginally the tyres were turned to a profile which was slightly different from a heavy rail one, but could still run on the original BR tracks on the Altrincham and Bury lines and the new city centre and Eccles routes.
Since the track was relayed they have been turned to a tram profile which is ok on plain rail track but can have problems on check rails and pointwork on the heavy rail system.

[swisstrains]

Originally Posted by JEB-245584/2

The only problem a Metro-Link tram has is wheel profile, orginally the tyres were turned to a profile which was slightly different from a heavy rail one, but could still run on the original BR tracks on the Altrincham and Bury lines and the new city centre and Eccles routes.
Since the track was relayed they have been turned to a tram profile which is ok on plain rail track but can have problems on check rails and pointwork on the heavy rail system.

Thanks for that JEB. I had forgotten about wheel profile differences when comparing trams and heavy rail vehicles.
Years ago I believe that there were some places where heavy rail wagons were allowed to traverse street tram lines by running on their flanges due to the lower profile track.

[steam for ever]

So if this is true in theory a national network train use the metrolink line.
I know there is some very tight curves but nothing a class 142 pacer unit can't handle.
This would be great as a special seeing one of these in the city streets.
One ambition of mine is to see C13 and 14 4-4-0T's working the line once more on specials.
It could be done as there is the same gauge and height restrictions for this type.

[swisstrains]

Originally Posted by steam for ever

So if this is true in theory a national network train use the metrolink line.
I know there is some very tight curves but nothing a class 142 pacer unit can't handle. This would be great as a special seeing one of these in the city streets.

And to prevent light rail and heavy rail vehicles coming into contact it would have to run in the middle of the night when all the Metrolink trams were safely tucked in bed....................Now there's a thought, a Pacer railtour bouncing around the streets of Manchester on its flanges in the middle of the night. It could be called "The Vomit Dodger"

Originally Posted by steam for ever

One ambition of mine is to see C13 and 14 4-4-0T's working the line once more on specials.
It could be done as there is the same gauge and height restrictions for this type.

Sadly an ambition never likely to be realised unless you have a C13 or 14 hidden away somewhere. Incidentally weren't they 4-4-2T's?

[steam for ever]

Yes they were.
Don't worry, I've got a plan up my sleeve as well as a spanner, a copy of new scientist and a pack of kleenex tissues!

I was thinking that a pacer could run on a sunday when there are less trams.
Like the name I have to say.
As far as the C13 and 14's are concerned, there is a great chance for a new build here.
I wonder what metrolink would say?
No probably.

[62440]

If no-one else noticed, there's a 4 page article on this very subject in the current edition of the Railway Magazine.
Cheers. 62440

[steam for ever]

Ah well I will purchase this as soon as poss then thanks!

[Deathbyteacup]

Mainline trains have taken a ride on Metrolink in recent years.

Metrolink hired 3 Class 08 shunters and a Class 60 locomotive from EWS in order to help with the relay of track on the Bury and Altrincham lines.

The ex-BR sections of Metrolink where and still are built and maintained to Network Rail standards, to the point that I believe staff even carry up to date Network Rail literature to assist them with this.

I did have a photo of a Class 60 on Metrolink metals but can't find it at the moment. This proves it did occur, however;

http://www.ews-railway.co.uk/cmsnews...45D244AF8CE%7D

But as EWS states there, there are problems with clearences brining main line locomotives onto the Metrolink network, certainly in the city centre where the OHL is far too low for a mainline loco to fit under (I believe EWS had to bring their locos in via the connection at the ELR).

So there is no chance of fitting a Pacer into the city centre because the wires are too low.

I also don't see a Pacer making it up the gradient towards Shudehill on tram tracks without derailing to be honest.

Non starter.

[pavorossi]

Originally Posted by Deathbyteacup

But as EWS states there, there are problems with clearences brining main line locomotives onto the Metrolink network, certainly in the city centre where the OHL is far too low for a mainline loco to fit under (I believe EWS had to bring their locos in via the connection at the ELR).

Indeed they did. Indeed, all the ballast and rails used for the relaying of the Bury line came over East Lancs metals. If I remember correctly, they used to use a mainline engine to haul them from Hopwood groundframe, through Heywood, down Broadfield Bank and in to Bolton Street. They'd then attach a cut down 08 to the back, and shunt the wagons in some sidings, specially laid for the purpose, down by the steam shed at Baron Street. Whether the mainline diesels (either 60s or 67s, I forget which) actually made it on to metrolink metals I'm not sure.

In the very early years of Metrolink, they held a depot open day, and one of the exhibits was Gothenburg, which got to the depot under it's own power. It was apparently chosen as it was the only steam engine on the line which would fit under the over head wires.

[swisstrains]

Originally Posted by Deathbyteacup

.................
I did have a photo of a Class 60 on Metrolink metals but can't find it at the moment. This proves it did occur, however;
http://www.ews-railway.co.uk/cmsnews...45D244AF8CE%7D..........

During the upgrading work EWS Class 60's were permitted to work on the Metrolink line from Bury to Collyhurst Tunnel. Only the cut-down 08's were permitted to proceed through the tunnel into Manchester Victoria. The Metrolink handbook states that the overhead wires on the railway sections are at a nominal height of 4700mm but that trams can cope with a minimum height of 3900mm in places. This could explain why a Class 60 with a height of 3931mm could operate as far as Collyhurst Tunnel but only a cut-down 08 with a height of 3610mm could pass through the tunnel. ( For reference the actual trams are 3700mm high with their pantographs lowered)

Originally Posted by Deathbyteacup

But as EWS states there, there are problems with clearences brining main line locomotives onto the Metrolink network, certainly in the city centre where the OHL is far too low for a mainline loco to fit under (I believe EWS had to bring their locos in via the connection at the ELR). So there is no chance of fitting a Pacer into the city centre because the wires are too low.

I don't understand this as the Metrolink handbook states that the overhead wires in the City Centre section are actually higher with a nominal height of 5500mm above the roadway. I assume this is to cater for high road vehicles such as double-decker buses.

Originally Posted by Deathbyteacup

I also don't see a Pacer making it up the gradient towards Shudehill on tram tracks without derailing to be honest.
Non starter.

I can't argue with that