Enough Northern!

[faltskog36abba]

i live in crumpsall on the bury line,and commute to walkden on the wigan via atherton line,i can leave crumpsall and arrive in walkden 30 minutes later,northern are i think running most of the trains on time,and the toilets are working and clean,the metrolink which is supposed to be every 6 minutes[ha ha what a joke]the only time i miss my train to work is when the tram pulls up after a 20 minute delay and its packed-as is the one behind it,northern have also started running a sunday service on the atherton line,which for me is a godsend,extortionate first bus could take me 2 hours to get home as the service is that bad,on a sunday anyway,northern are doing a great job.

[robbo]

If things are as bad as you say and all complaints have fell on deaf ears - BOYCOTT the services and use another form of transport that gets you to your destination !!!
If enough did this then they might do something
What about every one on the train reserving a seat on a daily basis in advance? They might then add extra carriages knowing they have reached capacity and are breaking H & S by letting more on.

[John_142]

The majority of NR trains I have been on the toilest have been bunged up plus theey are definatly not clean nor are EMTs Trains nor are ATW and SWT claened very well they do have cleners but theesed ays they are more of a litter picker than anything carpets don't get cleaned toilets get a few squirtes of disinfectant spray and run over with a dirty mop its all to do wth money that it the problem not jsut with northern with every TOC arround but yet in my persoinal exprences Northern do seem to be the worst in all the TOCs ive ever travled with in asspects.

They slag FGW off all the time but wdespite a few tproblems with failing trians there trians do seem relativley claean andwas made well aware of what was going on on well don FG.

[Deathbyteacup]

Originally Posted by faltskog36abba

i live in crumpsall on the bury line,and commute to walkden on the wigan via atherton line,i can leave crumpsall and arrive in walkden 30 minutes later,northern are i think running most of the trains on time,and the toilets are working and clean,the metrolink which is supposed to be every 6 minutes[ha ha what a joke]the only time i miss my train to work is when the tram pulls up after a 20 minute delay and its packed-as is the one behind it,northern have also started running a sunday service on the atherton line,which for me is a godsend,extortionate first bus could take me 2 hours to get home as the service is that bad,on a sunday anyway,northern are doing a great job.

Hah, how weird. You do exactly my journey to work but in reverse. I travel TO Crumpsall.

I agree with this though. I just know I can turn up at the station and be in Crumpsall in about half an hour. Northern are doing their job.

[faltskog36abba]

well said dbtc,northern do run a good service,in the days of north western trains-i finished work and was waiting for a train at swinton for the last train to manchester,i waited for an hour in bitterly cold weather and nothing showed up,even the lights were turned off on the station,then came in the last train to wigan from manchester[delayed],i asked the guard[cant quite get used to saying conductor]what happened to my train, and when will it turn up,he said the only way i would get to manchester was get on his train to wigan and then come back again,this must be a record?i was there at 22.40,and was still there at 23.40 when the train pulled in from the opposite direction,if i would of boarded the train to wigan[30 mins]then wait for the turn back?then 47 minutes back to manchester and then miss the last tram from vic to crumpsall,i got a taxi in the end and sent a receipt and my ticket to north western trains,they sent me a fiver-wow wee,it cost me a tenner in the taxi,now northern are the operater,things have improved,they are installing passenger help points on some stations on the line-as well as a tannoy system that will tell you if your train will turn up..or not,at the end of a hard days work you just want to get home..northern arent the best but are a far better operater than the ones who tried to run trains in the area mentioned,br,regional railways,north western trains,first north western trains,its much more reliable now northern run the trains.

[steam for ever]

Originally Posted by Deathbyteacup

You say the toilets are blocked as if it's a fact, you don't provide a source for that statement, you just say it as if it's true. I've been on 3 Northern services today, the toilets have been fine on each one. If all the toilets are blocked, why is that?

Rural branch lines exist because of commuters, for the record.

On the customer service front, if I've never had bad customer service from Northern, why is that? I don't understand. Please explain to me when you've had bad customer service specifically?

Also, I do not work for the railways, I work for Manchester City Council.

I have indeed had some bad times with Northern rail. About 8 weeks ago while taking friends on a trip into Manchester, the guard became very impatient when I asked for more than two tickets. There being five of us. After the second (I had explained what I wanted clearly and politely I add) he said "For goodness sake waht d'ya want now?"
Now as someone who does not work for a franchise, I'm no expert, but even I can see something is wrong here.
Then I heard of someone being given a hard time because he tried to pay with a £50 note. The guard wanted to throw the poor bloke off the train and raised his voice and threatened him with prosecution for not paying, when in fact the guard just didn't have the change.

Whether the toilets are blocked or not it does not excue the general state they can be left in.

[diligentdave]

I'd like to say here, that seeing some of the quotes made by Steam for ever, this gentleman certainly does have a very sharp axe to grind.
Maybe he just doesnt like going to work everyday, so always travels with a very large chip on his shoulder, and unfortunately Northern get the brunt.

I'd like to say here, that I DO work for Northern.

Whilst I can understand the frustrations of travel via trains ( something I've been doing for donkeys years ) there are lots of areas where Mr Steam just does not work out.

Carrying passengers safely is a priority for Northern.

You will not find any train on the network that is unsafe.

I've read some of the tales users have put on this website about "doors flapping open", and can only say rubbish!!

It physically cannot happen. There are safety measures in place to prevent this happening.

All rail companies operate what is known as a "fail safe" policy, this meaning that if something fails it will cause the train to stop/cut off power supplies and basically not work.

With over 250 trains on the Northern network at any one time it is very difficult to repair everything that goes wrong/gets broken/is vandalised, and at times you will see temporary repairs, but they will be SAFE repairs, because if they are not, the TRAIN WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO GO!

Northern also has very high standards of cleanliness. If a train is dirty, it would only be down to the passengers using it. There can be limited times when it is possible to get staff to clean a train, especially when it is not due back to a major station/depot for upto 7 days at a time.

Enough said, moan about that if you please, I dont care.

[enigma45]

A lot of the failings so-called of rail companies today are not ALL down to managemnt incompetence. Some of it is down to disgruntled staff of all grades as a way of protest at monkeynut wages and sweatshop conditions. They don't actually break rules or sabotage anything but there are ways of "forgettingf" to to something or doing a task half heartedly. Who can blame them for doing this when the boss goes home with sackfuls of cash and shareholders laugh all the way to the bank. The railways today get far more subsidy than when they were nationalised which is tantamount to pouring public money into private bank accounts.

[steam for ever]

Moan I shall.
Simply blaming passengers is not good enough. It is Northerns job to keep the trains clean so whats the problem? I can tell you that I am more than happy with many other operaters and that Northern sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the others. I am not the only one that complains and you know that, I know that, and anyone who reads a decent railway magazine knows that as well.
I might be mistaken but caring is very important. If not then this is not a railway, but a cattle drive.

[Harold]

Over the past 10 years of using trains to get to/ from work and leisure trips. I have used Northern and their predecessors. I have always kept pressure on my local MP in regards of bigger (better) trains and extra services. When other people have moaned, I have told them to pressurise their MPs, as they are the only ones (collectively) that can improve services/ quality of stock etc.

I'd say Northern have got more of a grip on things than previous operators. Cleanliness of trains has improved greatly. Reliability and punctuality of the services have greatly improved.

There are still many things that could be done better, but these can't be done because of the government. The DfT let the Northern Rail Franchise on a no growth, so there was no chance to improve service levels/ new stock.

Rumor is Northern did want to buy new trains at the start of the franchise, but the government said no.

Since the franchise began Northern has seen about a 34% growth in passenger figures (considering the franchise forecast was let with no growth exppected), which is the biggest growth of any franchise TOC's.

Northern didn't rest on their laurals. They and the government undertook a review of services (government with a view to reduce services/ number of trains). But the report came out saying that the franchise was growing quickly with passenger numbers up and that the franchise was crying out for extra stock.

Northern Rail did manage to secure a deal for extra trains. I think this was about 38 extra (2- car) Class 158 DMU's. With the introduction of these extra 158s, Northern were planning to place a good number Class 142s into store/ off lease. But as the introduction of the 158s started it sooner learned that they would not be geting the 38 158s, in that 8x 158s were to be going to ScotRail, and 2 or 4 x 158s were to go to East Midlands Trains. The upshot of the EMT move was that Northern would get some Class 158 centre cars from EMT, to fit into some of Northern's 158s. A small number of 142s did go into store but nowhere near the numbers planned. So the 142s had to remain in service. ScotRail took our expected 158s as they said they were in no way going to take on Class 142s which were off lease (as 142s were the only stock available for redeployment).

Those (I think 7) 142s that did go into store were transfered to First Great Western on loan. Which have started to be returned to Northern with the remainder coming back when FGW gets other cascaded units from London Overground/ London Midland.

Also Northern have been able to secure 3x 5-car Class 180 DMUs on loan from National Express East Coast (before NatEx handed the franchise back) to increase capacity.

When the Oldham Loop closed, Northern were going to lose the 5x class 142s (going off lease). But since demand increased on nearby lines, Northern were able to retain these 5 units for strengthening work.

Since Northern started the franchise, they seem to have utilised their units better than previous operators, increasing capacity were required.
The introduction of more Class 158s introduced an internal cascade of units. 158s took over 156 diagrams, which were deployed onto other services that were operated by 150 or 142. The 150s or 142s displaced cascaded down to
diagrams operated by Class 153s or 142s, which were displaced to help increase capacity on other services (added onto trains). So the 158s offered increased capacity down the internal cascade, as 156s gave an increase in capacity to 142 diagrams, the 142s able to increase capacity of 153 diagrams. So a quick win all round.

The toilet issue is not really down to Northern, but is attributed to people putting stuff that isn't supposed to be put down toilets like paper towels, newspapers, bottles, food wrappers etc. When there has been this problem, Northern have tried to clear the blockage at the earliest oppertunity in the diagram. Sometimes even swapping units so to deal with the problem.

So if you keep putting pressure onto your local MPs there might be more chance of getting better/ newer trains/ increasing service levels.

Bottom line is it is down to the government, who call the shots with rail franchises.

So things aren't as bad as what some people make it out to be.