Enough Northern!

[John H-T]

Originally Posted by diligentdave

I'd like to say here, that seeing some of the quotes made by Steam for ever, this gentleman certainly does have a very sharp axe to grind.
Maybe he just doesnt like going to work everyday, so always travels with a very large chip on his shoulder, and unfortunately Northern get the brunt.

I'd like to say here, that I DO work for Northern.

Whilst I can understand the frustrations of travel via trains ( something I've been doing for donkeys years ) there are lots of areas where Mr Steam just does not work out.

Carrying passengers safely is a priority for Northern.

You will not find any train on the network that is unsafe.

I've read some of the tales users have put on this website about "doors flapping open", and can only say rubbish!!

It physically cannot happen. There are safety measures in place to prevent this happening.

All rail companies operate what is known as a "fail safe" policy, this meaning that if something fails it will cause the train to stop/cut off power supplies and basically not work.

With over 250 trains on the Northern network at any one time it is very difficult to repair everything that goes wrong/gets broken/is vandalised, and at times you will see temporary repairs, but they will be SAFE repairs, because if they are not, the TRAIN WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO GO!

Northern also has very high standards of cleanliness. If a train is dirty, it would only be down to the passengers using it. There can be limited times when it is possible to get staff to clean a train, especially when it is not due back to a major station/depot for upto 7 days at a time.

Enough said, moan about that if you please, I dont care.

Welcome to the Forum Dave and thanks for putting Northern's side of the story. I don't live in the area so can't comment but it does seem to be a topic which gets several members rather worked up!

Hope you keep posting your views. Lively, polite debate is always welcome!

Best wishes,

John H-T.

[John H-T]

Welcome to the Forum Harold.

Many thanks for your comments on Northern. It all helps those of us who don't live in the area to try to understand the situation!

Best wishes,

John H-T.

[lesleyholly]

Originally Posted by steam for ever

I have complained in the past about northern, but now enough is enough.
Yesterday on my way home I counted 40 people between the front seats and the drivers cab on the 142 in charge.
There was an unbelievable crush and there was around 4 people in the vestibule. The fact is that you (northern rail) are taking the ****.

You are quite happy to see trains dangerously overcrowded, with must be at least twice the number of recommended passengers on board. It is dangerous and most likely unlawful.
There is a high risk of people getting hurt, and lets not forget that the majority of the trains are in very bad condition.
Granted, some trains are appearing externally cleaner in recent months, but that does not substitiute for the foul state on the interior.

Toilets seem to be universally blocked, with much urine on the floor and taps that do not work and soap dispensers that do not dispense.

Your staff can be rude and unhelpful. I understand that you must go through the DFT to aqquire new or more trains, but with nothing so much as an apology, your conduct is quite honestly disgusting.
DMUs break down on a regular basis (despite your reliability rating) and substitutes are poor, with no extra services although the number of passengers build up.

You have failed in your duty of care and care and current standards stand
out from other TOCs as being almost third world.
Quite plainly you do not deserve the extension to the franchise. All this and still your website goes on about how good you are.

Sooner or later there will be an accident. One that is too terrible to think of and you and no one else will be at fault, and I am amazed that it has not already happened.
Do something.
Not next year, not next month, do it NOW!!!!!

glad you say enoughts enough hope it last we will here you moan about railways enthusiast do not run them down the poeple in your area make the trains scruffy as it does not happen in other places keep taking your pills

[CaravanClub]

Hi all...
My first post on here and I'm heading straight into this firefight, in at the deep end I feel! I don't work for Northern, but I am a guard for a TOC a fair but further south. As far as the overcrowding issue goes, there was a study some time ago which concluded (conveniently) that a train which is packed solid is, in fact, the safest environment to be in, as there is less chance of being thrown around inside the train in an accident due to the cushioning effect of the other people packed in around you. Yep, really! We can all make our own assesments of that, but it effectively means that there is no recourse from a H&S point of view when it comes to a packed train. As has been mentioned already, if you venture down onto the Tube during a busy peak period it gives a whole new meaning to 'busy'!
As for the Guard's responsibilities, TOC's will all say that it is the Guard's decision as to when the train becomes unsafe, but the reality is that it's extremely difficult to police how many people board a train in the middle of rush hour, and cancelling a service or attempting to forcibly offload people is not something that would go down well. Indeed, simply trying to prevent excess loading of pushbikes is often akin to climbing a very steep mountain (more experience in that department only yesterday!). People will pack themselves into a train to a ridiculous degree out of sheer desperation not to have to wait for another service. It isn't ideal to have that situation, but it is, for the time being at least, just the way of things. On the issues of rolling stock, TOC's have no incentive to purchase their own due to the nonsensical system of such short franchises; they simply can't guaruntee a return on their investment. I play with 'Pacers' most days and, whilst I have no working knowledge of Northern's fleet, they are pretty effective at crowd shifting on busy, short routes, and with a bit of money spent they can be fairly passable as a modern(ish) train - though not on jointed track or sharp curves! The 158s are generally pleasant to travel on, but slow to load large crowds due to the door/vestibule/luggage rack arrangements. The 150s are possibly about the best of the old BR era stock for a busy rush hour, though they suffer from slow and sometimes unreliable doors. With the general shortage of stock, some of the problems are caused simply by the 'wrong' trains being put on the 'wrong' routes, but then again anything is usually better than nothing!

[John H-T]

Welcome to the Forum CaravanClub and thanks for your contribution to this controversial topic! Look forward to more!

Best wishes,

John H-T.

[John_142]

One point id like to make is that I liver near INCE in Wigan but buy the time I pedal to INCE Station I can be in Wigan in the same ammount of time so don't realy need to use Norhern Trains anymore "Yipppee" plu sif I go to Liverpool I go Via Warrington and Hunts Cross on the 07.53 etc.

I do find the attitude of some of the Staff in the Merseyside area of the operation quite rude and offten ignorant I gather it must be to do with the area.

[underbank]

Typical talk of the cleanliness and toilets problem being because of the poor travellers. I regularly use the Carnforth to Leeds (so called) "service" via the Skipton line, taking the first train of the day. It's often filthy - that's simply because it wasn't cleaned from the day before - it's the first train of the day - litter on the floor, still-wet spills on the seats etc. Often stuck on it for best part of two hours, toilets are sometimes blocked meaning quite an uncomfortable 2 hours!! Clearly, it's not been cleaned and maintained overnight!

Not to mention two hours being stuck on an old and uncomfortable train is not pleasant. These old 2 car DMUs are not meant for long, slow journeys like that. No refreshments, only one toilet (if you're lucky), etc. Once you get to Skipton and get closer to Leeds, the train gets so full, it's claustrophobic - aisles can sometimes be completely blocked with dozens of people.

It's alright for people living in cities to say just wait and take another train - there is only ONE train to get you to Leeds before lunchtime!