Two trains crash near Salisbury.

[pre65]

Breaking news.

A number of passengers have been injured in a crash between two trains near Salisbury.

The collision happened near London Road with police, the fire service, paramedics and British Transport Police at the scene.

About 12 people are thought to have been injured and one of the drivers is believed to be trapped in their cab.

Dorset and Wiltshire Fire and Rescue declared the crash a "major incident" and 50 firefighters are in attendance.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-59114569


*

[TRP]

An update this morning - 17 people were injured, with some needing hospital treatment, but there are no serious injuries reported.
And a few more details emerging - the rear coach of the GWR train derailed at after reportedly hitting an object, shortly before entering Fisherton Tunnel. This apparently damaged signalling equipment and shortly afterwards, the SWR train ran into the back of the derailed GWR train.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-59116800

Tony

[pre65]

Two video news reports on the incident.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w9S...ist=WL&index=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It47...ist=WL&index=2


*

[Beeyar Wunby]

Earlier today I wrote a reply about how it was odd that GSMR didn't prevent a collision, like it was designed to do. But I didn't post it because I didn't want to slur the driver.

However it's now been mentioned by BTP...

Originally Posted by BBC News

Supt Garrett also said there was no evidence the driver of the derailed train pressed an emergency alarm, which would set the surrounding signals to red.

A somewhat inaccurate description. It's much better than that.

The GSMR radios that are fitted in cabs have a Big Red emergency button. If this is pressed, all trains in the same signalling area receive an Emergency Stop Message. This causes an alarm tone to sound and written message to appear on the screen of the GSMR radio. If anyone receives this, they must immediately stop their train as quickly as possible (ie, wack the Emergency Brake on their train).

It worth noting that this is a radio system. Whilst signal cabling and equipment boxes are located close to the the running lines, making them vulnerable to physical damage - GSMR masts are located some distance from the track.

The big question is....why didn't the first driver whack the Big Red Button?

They may not have been able to, of course.

And as ever, we'll find out in the fullness of time.

Cheers, John

[pre65]

Sadly, the drivers injuries are more serious than at first thought.

"Supt Garrett said of the 92 passengers on board the two trains, 30 people attended a casualty centre set up in a nearby church, with the majority "walking wounded".

Two people, along with the driver, remain in hospital.

Supt Garrett said: "Unfortunately the driver of the train was more seriously injured and his injuries are believed to be life-changing."

"We have now moved out of the rescue phase of the operation and into the investigation, which will involve the trains remaining in situ for some time."

*

[pre65]

Oh dear.

"A senior Network Rail engineer with more than 10 years' experience and who had seen information about the crash said only a 'major' signalling error could have caused the crash.

Speaking to Mail Online on condition of anonymity, they claimed that when the GWR train collided with an object and derailed, there should be an 'automatic obstruction warning' to stop any train entering that same mile-long stretch.

'There has been a major flaw within the signalling system within Network Rail. The system says that the line is not safe for the passage of another train because there is an obstruction on the line,' they said, adding: 'According to my system, the signalling system was aware seven minutes before impact. It should've automatically stopped the train. It should've automatically set all signals to red. If the driver didn't see the signal, the system should've made the train stop.' The whistleblower added: 'I've realised for a number of years there has been numerous failures within [Network Rail]' and said they had feared an incident like this would happen 'for the past two years'."


*

[TRP]

Originally Posted by Beeyar Wunby

Earlier today I wrote a reply about how it was odd that GSMR didn't prevent a collision, like it was designed to do. But I didn't post it because I didn't want to slur the driver.

However it's now been mentioned by BTP...


A somewhat inaccurate description. It's much better than that.

The GSMR radios that are fitted in cabs have a Big Red emergency button. If this is pressed, all trains in the same signalling area receive an Emergency Stop Message. This causes an alarm tone to sound and written message to appear on the screen of the GSMR radio. If anyone receives this, they must immediately stop their train as quickly as possible (ie, wack the Emergency Brake on their train).

It worth noting that this is a radio system. Whilst signal cabling and equipment boxes are located close to the the running lines, making them vulnerable to physical damage - GSMR masts are located some distance from the track.

The big question is....why didn't the first driver whack the Big Red Button?

They may not have been able to, of course.

And as ever, we'll find out in the fullness of time.

Cheers, John

I don't have your knowledge & experience John, but I thought that if the original report was accurate and the derailed first train had damaged the signalling equipment, that this would automatically set all surrounding signals to red.
However, different reports now suggest some slightly different circumstances - namely that the first reports stated that the GWR (first) train had derailed after hitting an object on the track but initial investigations have not found any evidence of that. Also, the initial reports stated that there was around 7 minutes between the derailment of the first train and the second (SWR) train running into the back of the first, but it now seems that the gap might have been much shorter than that - possibly not giving the first driver time to press the emergency button before the collision.
I feel particularly sorry for the SWR driver who has reportedly suffered life changing injuries.

Tony

[TRP]

And now it's even more confusing...

This BBC report states that the BTP have confirmed that "both trains were moving when the collision happened".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-59116800

Tony

[Beeyar Wunby]

Thanks Tony.

I see what you mean.

The link you've given us says this...

Originally Posted by The BBC website

The trains were travelling in the same direction on different tracks but collided at a Y-shaped junction approaching the tunnel, with one hitting the side of the other causing it to derail, BTP said.

If the above is correct, that certainly answers my question.

Cheers, John.

[aussiesteve]

G'day,
The track diagram plus photos of this incident kinda gives the game away.
HMMMM.
Mention of the GSMR radio emergency broadcast system reminds me of the Bad Aibling prang in Bavaria.
Two emergency frequencies being utilized by the DB system.
Der Fahrdienstleiter reputedly hitting the wrong frequency button for that area.
Sadly, we will never know what the German train crews were aware of as both were killed in the incident.
By contrast our recent prang on the South Coast at Kembla Grange below Wollongong might look bad.
The front car of a four car Tangarbage emu gone bush and laying on it's side.
But, being a predawn service, thankfully only four injuries sustained.
It boggles the brain that any IDIOT would leave a vehicle parked on a level crossing.
Engaged in break and enter plus theft, the culprit who fled the scene has been subsequently apprehended.
One wonders, had the emu been of a different variety, would it have survived the prang any better.
Our Tangarbages having a lighter weight driving trailer each end of the pair of central motor cars.
I am guessing that our ATSB mob will await the outcome of the criminal trial before publishing a prang report.
I have not ridden a train in the past 17 months, and have no intention of doing so in the near future.
Forced to wear a mask for the four hour trek to smog hollow, definitely not an enticing prospect.
But, I have always avoided the front car, when possible.
It was occasionally scary enough when being paid to sit up the front.
Steve.