Opening new Line for Everton & Liverpool

[Ringo]

Opening Rail Line for Everton, Liverpool and City - click here

The City of Liverpool has Rapid-Transit Rail Lines Awaiting Two Football Clubs, an Arena and the Community

Joined up thinking by all parties can give Everton FC, Liverpool FC, Kings Dock Arena and the community a new Merseyrail Metro line.

Rapid-transit can move over 40,000 people per hour, maximising stadia and line investment.

Not to use the available Merseyrail Metro Rapid-Transit for Three Stadia is Irresponsible.

Rapid-transit rail has ensured that Arsenal FC have filled their new stadium to over 97% of capacity since 2006.

Ideal Opportunity To Combine All Parties

The city will never see such an opportunity. How often:

• Do two large football clubs build stadia at the same time?
• Does the city propose a city-wide electric transit system - trams but Merseyrail metro is superior?
• Does the city regenerate so quickly?
• Does the government electrify rail lines - the City Line from Liverpool to Wigan, and the Canada Dock Branch Line?

The opportunity must not be lost to combine all parties for the greater good of the football clubs and the community to create economic growth. A newly opened rapid-transit rail line on the Merseyrail metro opened to passengers may serve:
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continued:
Opening Rail Line for Everton, Liverpool and City - click here

Good link:
Easy Extending of Merseyrail - click here

Emirates[1].jpg
Stations around the Emirates stadium
FullOuterLoopLine.jpg
Disused Eastern section of Outer Loop in red. Dotted lines are existing Northern Line
Canada-Dock-Branch-2[1].jpg
Canada Dock Branch Line. Bottom right in green white box, an alternative stadium site.
Wapping-Central-1970s[1].jpg
Edge Hill Spur Project - using 1829 Wapping Tunnel to connect the east of the city with the underground city centre section of Merseyrail. Started and abandoned in the 1970s.
OuterLoopBridge[1].jpg
The mothballed eastern section of the Outer Loop is complete with bridges

[Ringo]

The link clearly states that the Emirates stadium is very easy and fast to get to in comfort and easy to get away from. The 27 rapid-transit platforms around the stadium is the key to filling a 60,000 stadium every game for over 6 years. That level of attendance is unprecedented in the world for any new stadia. During this time Arsenal have won nothing. So they were not clambering to get to the Emirates because of a successful club that won trophies, that is clear. The rapid-transit stations around the Emirates is phenomenal.

Spurs viewing the key to Arsenal's success were super eager to get hold of the Olympic stadium. Spurs wanted to:

1. Pull down the stadium.
2. Build a smaller football dedicated stadium, with corporate facilities, on its site.
3. Build another stadium in Crystal Palace for athletics.

Just to get that site.

Why were Spurs prepared to spend an amazing amount of money in 1 to 3 above? Because of the rapid-transit rail links, Crossrail, etc, at Stratford, that would guarantee stadia success.

The key to the Arsenal success has not gone unnoticed by many - Spurs saw it. Many in Liverpool are wanting the two clubs and the city to get together to adopt the same Arsenal approach. Liverpool has Merseyrail, a smaller version of the London Underground, complete with redundant mothballed trackbed and tunnels. So emulating Arsenal is easy. The North Liverpool Extension line was to be a part of Merseyrail in the 1970s, however Thatcher stopped all that from materializing. She got in power at the end of Merseyrail project and it was shelved due to budget. This line was to form the eastern section of a city-wide Merseyrail loop. The city is still waiting for the full loop with large parts of north east and south east sections of the city not served by Merseyrail rapid-transit.

This line is still there complete with bridges and is easy to merge into Merseyrail. A 100 metre stretch has half the width of the track built on by a Sainsbury's access road, but that is no show stopper.

The North Liverpool Extension line reused or the used Canada Dock freight line, which is to be electrified soon, and used for passengers again, are the obvious lines to serve two large stadia. The stadia can be miles apart on the lines. Completing the full Outer Loop of the city is best approach. This can run into the airport when a line is run into the terminal eventually.

Having the stadia on rapid-transit with comprehensive connections and park & ride, would reduce the nuisance value of these structures.

The opportunity must not be lost to combine all parties for the greater good of the football clubs and the community to create economic growth. A newly opened rapid-transit rail line on the Merseyrail metro opened to passengers may serve:

1. Many districts in the city
2. Wider Merseyside
3. Everton FC
4. Liverpool FC
5. The Kings Dock Arena

The city has to get it right as these stadia will be around for 100 years or more. Do it wrong and two white elephants may emerge. All the ingredients are there to guarantee success all around. It needs knocking heads together from many parties to get it done.

All in all a win, win all around. The case for it is overwhelming.

Emirates[1].jpg
The abundance of stations around the Emirates gives 27 rapid-transit platforms.

[Silver Fox Phil]

Just what the doctor ordered! Liverpool needs this, and as its been said, the massive opportunities should not be missed. A chance of a lifetime and many problems solved for moving vast amounts of people. Not just for the forseable future but long term as well. Bring it on! and hope they get it right.
Good luck
Cheers
Phil

[Ringo]

Originally Posted by Silver Fox Phil

Just what the doctor ordered! Liverpool needs this, and as its been said, the massive opportunities should not be missed. A chance of a lifetime and many problems solved for moving vast amounts of people. Not just for the forseable future but long term as well. Bring it on! and hope they get it right.
Good luck
Cheers
Phil

Phil, it does solve many problems at one swoop, just by opening a mothballed line and telling the two clubs to locate to it. Everyone then wins. As you say in the long term the line can smoothly run onto the airport.

Many say is it feasible? The viability to open lines to passengers is that the two large football clubs can attract approximately four million passenger trips per year for football traffic alone. Usage by the community 365 days per year and further events at the stadia will further increase passenger trips probably by twice as much. So, 7 to 8 million using a line is figures that demand the DfT to look hard and cough up. Everton FC, Liverpool FC and other parties can be enablers. Sainbury's could contribute and have a station in their car park at Knotty Ash. Liverpool Lime Street caters for 10 million per ann. to get it into perspective. This is eye opening stuff not fantasy land.

The nuisance value of stadia is vastly reduced moving most fans by rapid transit. Pollution is vastly reduced with millions of vehicle journey's taken off the roads over a year. Collectively over a year the CO2 reduction is highly significant if rapid-transit served Everton FC, Liverpool FC, the Kings Dock Arena for events and Greater Liverpool as a whole on a 365 basis.

Countless thousands of out of town people visit Liverpool FC, Everton FC and the Kings Dock Arena for events each year - political party conferences are held there. Many of them foreign. Having top-class transport to major venues does impress outsiders. The UK has to put its best foot forward.

Phil, you are right, it is a chance in a lifetime and should not be missed. The UK should show the way in how to bring back into use redundant lines to great benefit. Other cities I am sure can do something similar.

[johnmoly]

Hasn't Merseyrail been looking at this for years ?. A few years ago Merseytravel bosses hired a train to take them over the current goods only line with this in mind yet again.
I was told they couldn't have the funding as all extra cash was going to be spent in the London area. Even the plans for replacing the current 507/508 fleet with brand new stock have gone quiet and that was due to happen next year.

[Ringo]

Originally Posted by johnmoly

Hasn't Merseyrail been looking at this for years ?. A few years ago Merseytravel bosses hired a train to take them over the current goods only line with this in mind yet again.
I was told they couldn't have the funding as all extra cash was going to be spent in the London area. Even the plans for replacing the current 507/508 fleet with brand new stock have gone quiet and that was due to happen next year.

John, you are correct. But that was when the Canada Dock Branch Line was diesel only and no electric was planned for it. DfT men with Liverpool council and Liverpool FC people were on the train. The idea was to open the line to diesel only and primarily for Liverpool FC, although used as a permanent passenger line. Liverpool FC's USA owners then ummmed and arrred about new stadium expansion - expanding approved plans.

The Dft Britain’s Transport Infrastructure Rail Electrification document of 2009 clearly stated that the line to Liverpool docks was to be electrified - the lines is the Canada Dock Branch line. The contract given to Balfour Beatty appears not to mentions electrifying the Canada Dock Branch line.Click here - page 24 Do they have their focus on the eastern section of the Outer Loop then? The unused eastern section of the Outer Loop is a far superior line all around seamlessly merging onto the existing Merseyrail and covering more districts and can run into the airport when extended. It is getting Everton FC and Liverpool FC, who are both moving stadia, to locate to the line as the enablers. The passenger traffic generated by the two clubs and normal every day traffic makes it highly viable. It would mean the city is just playing catch-up as the line should have been on Merseyrail nearly 40 years ago.

A great benefit would be having two large football stadia on the line reducing nuisance and benefiting the clubs and many countless thousands who would visit these venues. If the O2 in London can have its own tube station then so can Everton, Liverpool and the Liverpool Kings Dock arena.

Funding? Well HMG did just ignore everywhere else and pour even more money into London, so would not run some diesel trains and build the odd station in a city desperate for its metro expansion. They claimed the signalling costs were the biggest funding problem. Read my posts on transport funding which can be done locally.

The rolling stock renewal has been put back, but light-rail rolling stock, like DLR, has been rumoured to be in the frame, which makes abundant sense. Merseyrail has to go light-rail in order to give flexibility to expand onto the docks at Liverpool Waters and Wirral Waters. Light-rail is also lighter on the curves on the city centre underground loop tunnels. If heavy rail rolling stock is adopted this will be a clear indicated that HMG in London is still wanting to kill city expansion.

The city's rail understructure, used and disused, is phenomenal. No other city comes anywhere Liverpool to what is available. Look at the map:
http://i41.tinypic.com/15mlgn8.png

Liverpool’s basic infrastructure is magnificent. It served a port second to none and a population double the size. The city has the footprint of Paris.

"Liverpool’s arteries and veins, its 1938 goods and passenger transport infrastructure, were magnificent. With some foresight, and a little fortuitous neglect, the city has retained the basics of an infrastructure befitting a second city of empire. If Liverpool is to come back and stay; if the population drain is to be significantly reversed; if the city of Liverpool is to be more than a million again, the city needs it all back - and that includes the trams. It needs re-opened lines, re-opened stations, re-opened tunnels, the overhead back on the waterfront, better freight connections and ultimately another Mersey crossing. Amazingly, because most of the unused tunnels, stations, rail beds, loop lines, tracks and alignments are still there, the cost per capita would be lower than anywhere else in Britain. This is a huge advantage for Liverpool of which central government ought to be aware."

But great big lumps of the city are now cut-off from the rest - split off by motorways. Bustling streets are ‘lost’. Roads blocked. Stations and lines abandoned. But amazingly mostly still there whether by good luck or good management.

15mlgn8[1].jpg
Liverpool-rail-map-1922[1].jpg
Extent of Liverpool's rail infrastructure

[Ringo]

John, the DfT owes the city of Liverpool. Merseytravel misguidedly planned a totally separate tram system, when the city has an urban underground/overground network. Crazy? Yes. If this tram system was to integrate with the existing Merseyrail network and use Merseyrail lines and tunnels then it may have made some sense filling in gaps mossed by Merseyrail. But that is besides the point I am making. Merseytram was cancelled by HMG. Nothing has been built rail-wise in a city with a metro that can expand with ease with countless miles of mothballed trackbed and about 5 miles of disused tunnel under the city. The city is crying out for economic growth creating rapid-transit rail infrastructure. A Merseyrail station in some deprived districts will pull them up greatly. Less HMG money is then needed to socially support these districts, so money well spent.
Good link:
Easy Extending of Merseyrail - click here

Other cities have had substantial money spent on their rail infrastructure either in new systems or extending the existing - look at the Metrolink expansions in Manchester. All the DfT has built in Liverpool is Liverpool South Parkway station in 2006 (40 years late) - many view the station as a white elephant. Well the expensive station has contributed little in economic growth and the platform is to short for London trains to stop which was one its purposes.

The DfT needs to get Merseyrail extended. Using the two large football clubs as enablers is clearly a way to gain a substantial, extra, needed, rapid-transit urban line and vastly reduce football stadia nuisance. The owed tram money has to be directed at Merseyrail, as bang-for-buck it offers so much. Rapid-transit will create economic growth while trams systems, electric buses on rails, will not, or only to a small degree.
Dingle_Station[1].jpg
Disused underground station

[D.O.G.F.A.N.]

And here's me thinking Ringo was NEVER going to speak again.
Nice one Ringo.Keep it up.

[pre65]

How likely is it that two Premier football clubs would move their grounds ?

[Ringo]

Originally Posted by pre65

How likely is it that two Premier football clubs would move their grounds ?

Pre65, the prime point, which was clearly made, is that both club's are planning new stadia at new locations. Opening a mothballed line and putting both on the line screams to be done - in a city with a ready made rapid-transit rail network!!!

To put an extra 10 stations on the Jubilee Line costed £3.4 billion. To put 10 stations on the eastern section of the Outer Loop: Hunts Cross, Halewood, Woolton. Gateacre, Childwall, Broad Green, Knotty Ash, West Derby, Norris Green & Walton, and probably 12 if Everton and Liverpool have stations on the line. Reusing the eastern section of the Outer Loop giving one city-wide loop will cost pennies in compassion, as most is still there. The Jubilee Line returned £4 for every £1 invested. If this project return just £2 for each £1 invested it will be a great success. I would wager it returned more.

Within the past 10 years Liverpool City Council have suggested stadium locations on the mothballed eastern section of the Outer Loop line. Also at least one on the current freight only, and scheduled to be soon electrified, Canada Dock Branch Line.

Originally Posted by D.O.G.F.A.N.

And here's me thinking Ringo was NEVER going to speak again.
Nice one Ringo.Keep it up.

I beat a big drum