Northern to install Automated Ticket Gates.

[hstudent]

Northern Rail feel that there are many passengers who get away without buying tickets, so want to install automated ticket gates similar to those used at stations like Liverpool James Street. The ticket gates will be installed at Manchester Oxford Road ,Piccadilly and Victoria, Blackpool North, Liverpool Lime Street, Bolton and Leeds.

By funding ticket gates Northern will also catch people who avoided purchasing a ticket while travelling on another companies service (not really their job). They will have to provide a member of staff as an alternative to the machines which will not accept the large types of tickets purchased over the internet or phone. Also for passengers who don’t want to risk the machine not giving back their season ticket or who need their ticket to claim compensation or to claim travel expenses back from their employers.

Some of the stations mentioned (Manchester Piccadilly and Leeds) don’t close overnight due to Manchester Airport to York services running through the night, while Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport trains start at 03:38, so Northern will have to provide staff in attendance to accommodate this.

Personally I think Northern would be better off by:
- Installing ticket machines at stations which have a ticket office where only one employee is present at any one time.
- Having longer opening hours on some existing ticket offices.
- Either opening a ticket office or installing a ticket machine at the most popular stations currently without facilities to purchase a ticket.
- Making sure conductors are checking tickets and using additional conductors on busy trains.

[swisstrains]

Originally Posted by hstudent

.........................Personally I think Northern would be better off by:
- Installing ticket machines at stations which have a ticket office where only one employee is present at any one time.
- Having longer opening hours on some existing ticket offices.
- Either opening a ticket office or installing a ticket machine at the most popular stations currently without facilities to purchase a ticket.
- Making sure conductors are checking tickets and using additional conductors on busy trains.

I think the majority of people who travel without a ticket do so, not because they were unable to buy one but simply because they had no intention of buying one. At my local Arriva Trains Wales station many people make no attempt to buy a ticket for short journeys and after boarding the train they do their utmost to avoid the conductor. They know that during busy periods the conductor can't get through the train to check tickets even if he/she wanted to so the chances of having to pay are pretty remote. Barriers at stations would go some way towards catching them.

[222007]

I appluad Northern for some good thinking. If this machines were designed to spit ticket out again people wouldnt have to worry not getting there ticket back. Also why cant internet sales and tele sales not use standard size tickets? Is there a real reason for "large tickets"? Personally i think ticket barriers should be installed at every station and ticket machines provided outside these barriers so people dont have an excuse not to use them.

[martin adamson]

Originally Posted by hstudent

The ticket gates will be installed at Manchester Oxford Road ,Piccadilly and Victoria, Blackpool North, Liverpool Lime Street, Bolton and Leeds.

I to be honest don't mind this idea. At the moment I can't stand it when staff check tickets, I've had a few times where staff have quizzed what route I was taking using my ticket. Not huge problems but still none the less. At Blackpool when I last visited I got a York bound train back to Manchester when the staff there asked why I wasn't getting a Manchester bound train, but replied by saying I was changing at Preston. Also at Manchester when I entered the platform too early and a different train was in was I quizzed.

[hstudent]

With regard to people choosing not to purchase a ticket. One station on the same line as I use, Northwich, has a ticket office which closes at 2:30pm. Northern have made zonal tickets avialable at a café. However, these aren't suitable for people who plan to change trains and while they are cheaper on most journeys, they are more expensive on others. Northwich can have about 20 people making an outward journey on the same afternoon train and the conductor has sometimes only done half the tickets from Northwich when the train is stopping at it's third station after leaving Northwich.

[hstudent]

Originally Posted by David A Hicks

At Blackpool when I last visited I got a York bound train back to Manchester when the staff there asked why I wasn't getting a Manchester bound train, but replied by saying I was changing at Preston. Also at Manchester when I entered the platform too early and a different train was in was I quizzed.

I made a recent journey to Blackpool North which involved a change at Manchester Piccadilly and I was under the impression that you won't get to Manchester more than 5 minutes quicker by changing at Preston. But it may be different if you use Blackpool South or Manchester Victoria.

Was it Platform 13 or 14 at Manchester Piccadilly (the ones at the side) that you used? Normally your told to wait in the 'lounge' if your train isn't one of the next two from either platform as those platforms are extremly busy at certain times.

[dlh1983]

Originally Posted by 222007

Also why cant internet sales and tele sales not use standard size tickets? Is there a real reason for "large tickets"? Personally i think ticket barriers should be installed at every station and ticket machines provided outside these barriers so people dont have an excuse not to use them.

I think the reason for the large tickets is so they can state a specific train and seat reservation but then they could easily issue two standard size tickets instead.

The problem with some ticket machines is they don't issue weekly seasons or tickets with a 'New Deal' railcards.

I think staff would have to be provided even if large tickets were abloished as what if someone has boarded at an unstaffed station and genuinly hasn't had the chance to purchase a ticket on the train? They'd be stuck in the station!

[swisstrains]

Originally Posted by hstudent

With regard to people choosing not to purchase a ticket. One station on the same line as I use, Northwich, has a ticket office which closes at 2:30pm. Northern have made zonal tickets avialable at a café. However, these aren't suitable for people who plan to change trains and while they are cheaper on most journeys, they are more expensive on others. Northwich can have about 20 people making an outward journey on the same afternoon train and the conductor has sometimes only done half the tickets from Northwich when the train is stopping at it's third station after leaving Northwich.

Yes, by all means increase station ticket office opening hours for honest travellers but also introduce barriers for those that aren't.
I don't think ticket machines are the answer at unmanned country stations because they are too susceptable to vandalism as the railways discovered to its cost a few years ago when some machines in Cheshire were wrecked within hours of being installed.
Passengers, especially ones only making short journeys, can also help the conductor by trying to have the right money available. It just needs a little bit of thought and forward planning and things can run much more smoothly.

[tkboomer2]

Originally Posted by swisstrains

I don't think ticket machines are the answer at unmanned country stations because they are too susceptable to vandalism as the railways discovered to its cost a few years ago when some machines in Cheshire were wrecked within hours of being installed.

The problem smaller stations in Cheshire have which smaller stations in Merseyside and Greater Manchester don't is that there is no CCTV at small or even medium sized stations in Cheshire and the police only ever go near stations if somethings been reported. I'm aware that Merseyside and Greater Manchester police go to certain stations just to remove teenage loiterers.

I'm aware that even stations which are staffed for 14 hours a day in Cheshire have problems with gangs of teenagers terriosing passengers and causing vandalism.

[swisstrains]

Originally Posted by swisstrains

I think the majority of people who travel without a ticket do so, not because they were unable to buy one but simply because they had no intention of buying one. .............................

Tonight I travelled on an Arriva Trains Wales service from Warrington Bank Quay. Of the 5 people standing in the vestibule I was the only one with a ticket. I had seen the others waiting on the platform for at least 10 minutes before the train arrived and as Warrington Bank Quay has a permanently staffed ticket office it was pretty obvious that they had no intention of buying a ticket. Much to their disgust (mumble, mumble, the ticket fellas coming, ****) the conductor was unusually quick and he nabbed the lot of them before the train reached their stops
I wonder how much money the railways lose every day because of people like this?