Driver Only Operation - useful info

[Beeyar Wunby]

So far I've kept tight-lipped about the battle that is in progress between the rail unions and the government over the introduction of 12 car driver only operation on the Gatwick Express.

But for those interested, the BBC has rather sensibly produced a short video explaining the problems.


Link ....https://www.facebook.com/BBCSouthTod...8371385586784/

(PS - I'm not looking for an argument, and will happily have a civilised discussion with anyone who may have a dissimilar opinion).

BW

[DSY011]

I have to agree with the last comment from BBC, it is safer to keep a guard on the train, even if the CCTV was live, and the camera's were always clean.
Just my thoughts.

[bramleyman]

As an Ex-guard even though from 1990 until DOO was brought in, I too am against No guards on trains. If there is a disabled person in need of help to board or alight at an unmanned station, is the driver then going to be expected to leave the cab and assist, thus delaying the train?

[TRP]

I am a little confused by what's being proposed because whilst both sides of the dispute refer to the proposals as Driver Only Operation, Southern have said that the Guard/Conducter will remain on the train to assist passengers, but no longer be responsible for closing the doors as this will be done by the Driver, whereas the Union has said it will be that the Driver will be the only member of staff on board.

Which is correct?!

Tony

[Beeyar Wunby]

Long story short.....the guard's role is being changed from being safety critical to just a dogsbody. So the the train can now run legitimately whether they're onboard or not. In time they will disappear completely. The plan which is no secret is to vastly reduce the number of railstaff inline with the McNulty report which was commisioned by the Tory government.

Ultimately there will be few, if any booking office staff, platform staff or on-train staff.

I have a nightmare in which the only person you will ever see on station property will be a solitary school-leaver, who is cheery and very clever with the Ipad that the company has given him, but is a bit lacking in railway knowledge. If you ask him a question, he'll Google it for you.

I hope I'm wrong.

BW

[davat]

As said by Bramleyman, I was trained as a guard by British Rail and it was the guard who was in overall charge of the train. and whilst I always have tried to move forward with times, no railofficial has ever tried to answer one of my questions, namely what happens in the event of say a serious collision which rendersd the driver either unconcious or dead. Who on the train can place detonators on the line or contact either Control or signaller to STOP TRAFFIC and avoid further turmoil.
I appreciate track circuit is in place on most routes but not them all.
Whilst I appreciate the overall cost of guards over the cost of putting track circuit into place over all passenger routes.
The role of an on train guard / or qualified other rail official is in my mind paramount.


David

[TRP]

Originally Posted by Beeyar Wunby

Long story short.....the guard's role is being changed from being safety critical to just a dogsbody. So the the train can now run legitimately whether they're onboard or not. In time they will disappear completely. The plan which is no secret is to vastly reduce the number of railstaff inline with the McNulty report which was commisioned by the Tory government.

Ultimately there will be few, if any booking office staff, platform staff or on-train staff.

I have a nightmare in which the only person you will ever see on station property will be a solitary school-leaver, who is cheery and very clever with the Ipad that the company has given him, but is a bit lacking in railway knowledge. If you ask him a question, he'll Google it for you.

I hope I'm wrong.

BW

So, even if the Southern plan at the moment is to retain the Guard/Conductor, there will be nothing to stop them removing them in the future. In which case, this shouldn't happen - I think safety will be compromised even if this plan is implemented, let alone removing the Guards altogether.

And why is it only Southern that want to introduce Driver Only Operation - if it was so good, then every TOC would be doing it.

It's seems to be all about cost cutting and while some savings could possibly be made in some areas, I think these proposals would be a bad move.

Tony

[Beeyar Wunby]

Well there is alot of DOO already around, but usually in 4 or 8 car trains and often with platform despatchers at the busier stations.

But there are alot of negative changes all happening at once;

1) Trains are getting longer at the same time as guards are being removed - this is what's happening on the Gatwick Express with the new12 car trains

2) Platform despatch staff are being reduced at the same time.

3) Trains are getting busier/fuller year on year

4) The railways own statistics (RSSB) show that the majority of passenger deaths & injuries occur at the "Platform Train Interface".

And this is being done to reduce companies' operating costs....passengers' won't see a reduction in ticket prices, but they are being subjected to more danger.

This is why things are coming to a head, sadly.

BW

[bramleyman]

Originally Posted by davat

As said by Bramleyman, I was trained as a guard by British Rail and it was the guard who was in overall charge of the train. and whilst I always have tried to move forward with times, no railofficial has ever tried to answer one of my questions, namely what happens in the event of say a serious collision which rendersd the driver either unconcious or dead. Who on the train can place detonators on the line or contact either Control or signaller to STOP TRAFFIC and avoid further turmoil.
I appreciate track circuit is in place on most routes but not them all.
Whilst I appreciate the overall cost of guards over the cost of putting track circuit into place over all passenger routes.
The role of an on train guard / or qualified other rail official is in my mind paramount.


David

Thank you very much Davat for your response.

[Tony]

As an ex Company Safety Officer albeit in an Airline, I can think of at least a dozen reasons why OMO is a ludicrous idea, especially on a crowded 12 coach train in the rush hour. Seeing the BBC clip makes it even worse.
1. A passenger taken ill in coach L. How is the driver contacted? How long before he can get to coach L to assess the situation? How long before he can initiate action?
2. A blockage on the line (shopping trolley), how does the driver report it and protect his train at the same time?
3. What happens in a collision? (Already mentioned).
4. A dirty lens on camera on coach L; does the driver risk moving or does he walk the kilometer there and back to clean it?
5. Sun into camera along the train, how can the driver be sure of door safety before he moves off?
It doesn't require a superbrain to see the pitfalls.
If Southern are not prepared to write a fixed indemnity of £10.000.000 for ANY death or at least £1,000,000 for any injury due to OMO, then they cannot think any more about this harebrained scheme.

P.S. I am not a union man; retired 26 years.