Bad brakes.

[steam for ever]

It is noted that Diesels have bad braking systems compared to steam.

Steam locos ceased major production in 1960, and so 50 years of technology has passed, yet still the standard of stopping power has not become better than steam locomotives.
I find this terrible.

The reason for the problem is that now disc brakes are used which can overheat and lose effectivness, whereas steam locos had brake pads which worked by directly pressuring the tyres.

Now something must be done and if we must have diesels and Electrics, at least improve the standards as the lack of effort here is appalling.
Anyone with me on this?

What is important, is there a solution?
Can we not have direct pressure brakes on modern traction?

[pre65]

Originally Posted by steam for ever

It is noted that Diesels have bad braking systems compared to steam.


Can we not have direct pressure brakes on modern traction?

Where did this information come from ?


Were disc brakes not an improvement then ?

Having spent many years selling brake components to the transport industry brakes are of particular interest to me and I would like to find out a lot more on loco braking systems.

[steam for ever]

I have never driven diesels, but I know someone who has done.
They said it was terrible.
Why do you think diesel brake tenders were invented?
The braking power was much weaker.

[pre65]

Originally Posted by steam for ever

I have never driven diesels, but I know someone who has done.
They said it was terrible.
Why do you think diesel brake tenders were invented?
The braking power was much weaker.

To the best of my knowledge diesel brake tenders were only used on unfitted trains, where the loco brakes were not enough to stop the train unaided.

But, even in steam days, unfitted trains had to have some wagon brakes partially applied when going down steep gradients because the loco brakes could not cope.

Perhaps some of the ex steam and diesel drivers on here would like to supply a little "evidence" ?

To be perfectly honest, until today I did not know that diesel brake tenders even existed, we live and learn !

http://www.semgonline.com/diesel/dbt.html

[Tony]

Hi SFE, Congratulations on your promotion.
If I remember correctly, brake tenders were introduced with the EE Type 3 (later class 37) because their introduction meant heavier trains could be run at higher speeds. Remember that most freight was carried in unbraked stock, only the locomotive and the guards brake van had brakes. The extra speed and weight required more braking power.
I clearly remember the brake tenders being used on the North Eastern main line North of York in the early 60's.

[steam for ever]

Thanks Tony.
I notice a difference on DMUs as well , and I mean modern class 150's!
On an ordinary day the train will round the corner about 100 yards away at about 10MPH and still the two oach train will shoot past us all and we have to chase it down the platform in order to get on.
I suppose it is the type of engines as well and also regulations.
You can't just slam it into reverse anymore to stop it.
Thats right health and safety have arrived.

[Dave Rowland]

I read recentl that the class 40 locos were withdrawn earlier than expected as their brake power was actally less effecient than a class 37. This meant that the 40's, although more powerful than the 37's, and being able to haul longer/heavier freights, were unable to efficiently stop a freight, taking ito consideration their own weight; it was therefore more suitable for 37's to haull shorter trains knowing that they could brake when required, being somewhat lighter than the 40's.

[steam for ever]

Now you see this is whi I have got such strong views that steam was withrdrawn too early.
if they really had to, just work out the problems first, however small they are.

[ccmmick]

We used to use brake tenders on ballast trains for more brake force.
The CDA clay wagons that were brought into use in 80s only had 2 disc brakes on opposite wheels the other two were handbrake only and you had to be on the ball going down Luxulyan Valley a 1in37 and a thousand ton train.

ccmmick

[pre65]

Originally Posted by steam for ever

Now you see this is whi I have got such strong views that steam was withrdrawn too early.
if they really had to, just work out the problems first, however small they are.

SFE - your main contention about brakes ceased to be an issue when fully fitted goods trains became the norm, and that was very many years ago !

The way you make things sound is not representative of how things really are and steam locos were no better in their heyday.