Up north.

[steam for ever]

Northern rail as a TOC has become much better over the last few months, but now the DFT is set to ruin it. We need extra trains more than anyone else, but instead of gaining the much needed stock, it is set to lose what it has.

It is losing all 180s and 4 class 156s.
We will no longer get the 319 EMUs until 2018. For some reason, First great western and East midlands have managed to wriggle themselves into getting more trains that we are getting by the hundreds. Is this fair for the place where overcrowding is the worst in the UK (Leeds and Manchester)?

Honestly, stuff them. Why, why are they doing this, ripping the heart out of the north in such a way. Is the DFT completely stupid or what? I'm getting pretty red in the face about this because there is nothing that makes the population of the north deserve any less than those living in the south. Is there something that makes us inferior?
FGW are giving us 7 pacers, but seeing as all pacers must be withdrawn by 2019 this will leave us with just a few 150s. Many lines operated by Northern will have no service at all, despite what the Government states, there will be nothing to operate them.

Now I don't wish to offend those who are served by the better off TOCs such as FGW or EMT, but it isn't fair. The DFT have not thought this through at all I'm sorry to say.

This is how I envisage the future system as is:

The NYMR operating all Esk valley line services by necessity.
Lighter branch lines will have all services withdrawn to aid more central cervices.

Many lines run with a much reduced service, casuing overcrowding to crush-to-death levels, such as mId chehsire, Buxton Line, Southport etc.
It is times like this that I think that there is no use having a railway at all.
FGW has the ability to operate loco hauled trains to ease their (small) problems, but Northern is denied of such a right.

We could, if we were allowed bring in any MK2s and Mk3s lying around and any class 47s and class 37s that are left, bringing them back from the scrap pile if required, and that would solve a huge problem, but nooooooooo.
That's too good for us isn't it.


And.... breathe. That sounding a little bit crazy to you? Well its just how it is.
Next election I'm voting for the monster raving loonies.

[lesleyholly]

Originally Posted by steam for ever

Northern rail as a TOC has become much better over the last few months, but now the DFT is set to ruin it. We need extra trains more than anyone else, but instead of gaining the much needed stock, it is set to lose what it has.

It is losing all 180s and 4 class 156s.
We will no longer get the 319 EMUs until 2018. For some reason, First great western and East midlands have managed to wriggle themselves into getting more trains that we are getting by the hundreds. Is this fair for the place where overcrowding is the worst in the UK (Leeds and Manchester)?

Honestly, stuff them. Why, why are they doing this, ripping the heart out of the north in such a way. Is the DFT completely stupid or what? I'm getting pretty red in the face about this because there is nothing that makes the population of the north deserve any less than those living in the south. Is there something that makes us inferior?
FGW are giving us 7 pacers, but seeing as all pacers must be withdrawn by 2019 this will leave us with just a few 150s. Many lines operated by Northern will have no service at all, despite what the Government states, there will be nothing to operate them.

Now I don't wish to offend those who are served by the better off TOCs such as FGW or EMT, but it isn't fair. The DFT have not thought this through at all I'm sorry to say.

This is how I envisage the future system as is:

The NYMR operating all Esk valley line services by necessity.
Lighter branch lines will have all services withdrawn to aid more central cervices.

Many lines run with a much reduced service, casuing overcrowding to crush-to-death levels, such as mId chehsire, Buxton Line, Southport etc.
It is times like this that I think that there is no use having a railway at all.
FGW has the ability to operate loco hauled trains to ease their (small) problems, but Northern is denied of such a right.

We could, if we were allowed bring in any MK2s and Mk3s lying around and any class 47s and class 37s that are left, bringing them back from the scrap pile if required, and that would solve a huge problem, but nooooooooo.
That's too good for us isn't it.


And.... breathe. That sounding a little bit crazy to you? Well its just how it is.
Next election I'm voting for the monster raving loonies.

i agree with you whats happend to 172 they was supposadly getting

[5701]

Once again the DFT strikes do they actualy understand that their customers the TOC,s want extra rolling stock.Every time ths happens the public suffer but as the civil servants are in the south they will never care about the north .Its time that TOC,s actualy were able to order their own rolling stock as they require not be told what crumbs from the table are available .I question wether or not the NYMR would want to take over full operation of Middlesborough Whitby even with subsidy it would probably not pay thus draining finances from the main operation.Lightlly used lines can not even be saved by bustistution as the main users are all on travel cards and the reimbusment to councils by govt is not covering costs and the powers that be dont seem to interested in allowing us to travel easily and economicaly witness the price rises of petrol,119p 122p since last week.No travel no growth in the economy so DFT start doing the right thing by TOC,s.

[Madcaravanner]

Civil Servants --- What a misleading job description these dumbo's in their cosy offices without any contact with reality are going to destroy rail travel in Northerns sector. but who will get the blame by the press

the TOC and Politicians who for a change haven't done anything -- yet

[steam for ever]

I would ahve loved to have seen 172s up here. The Turbostar series are fantastic units- quiet, comfortable and with very little vibration. I get the feeling that the only time that something will be done is when it it too late. I mean, why did London overground get 172s in the first place? They had perfectly good 150s there, so the 172s cold have been sent up here.
I have got to the stage where I don't drive unless absolutely necessary. Petrol is just too expensive, so I travel as much as possible by train. I don't like the 142s and I'm sure that neither does anyone else, but at least they are trains. It's all very well saying that they have to be withdrawn by 2019, but nothing is set to replace them. No civil servants do live up here granted, but one very poweful man does. I speak of the Duke of Westminster, who lives in Chester. I don't know if it would be worth sending him a letter. I imagine that Theresa Villiers would quake in her boots at the sight of him.

[Tony]

Hi SFE,
I don't know if they have been sorted out yet but the 172's were constantly breaking down during their first few weeks of operation. London Overground were unhappy about them to say the least.
319's in the North? Where would they run? You already have 323's and 350's. Arn't 50+ 185's enough for you? Here in the South West the latest thing we have are 6 150100's transferred from North London. Just think, in about 30 years, we may get some cascaded 185's !

[hairyhandedfool]

The Chat Moss route between Manchester and Liverpool will be electrified by 2013, so five years of diesels under the wires is crazy.

That said, the DfT and the word thinking are rarely seen in the same sentence, unless they are seperated by the word not.

It would almost be worth running non-refurbished 319s whilst the others are fitted out.

[steam for ever]

I don't know if we are keeping the 323s or not, but I doubt it. The 185s are simply not big enough for Manchester - Edinburgh expresses. I use them all the time to do this trip and it is cramped to say the least. They need to be twice as big.
Northern owns 68 142s, which it cannot lose, but will. It also has 23 class 144s, but they will go too. We are losing far too many trains than we can cope with. 102 units lost will cripple us. The remaining units are not enough for such a massive TOC.

Northern needs a licence to run loco hauled trains. There is no alternative.

I think they have solved the 172 exhaust problem now Tony. We thought those displaced 150s were comming to us, and they would have been welcomed with open arms.

[tel]

Us here in East Anglia only get what anyone else doesn't want, the rubbish thats left over. When the last time the Norwich to London Liv St line had new trains.

Tel

[pre65]

We got the first batch of the new standard steam locos ! What more do you want ?