No more fatalities - ever

[Flying Pig]

Now don't shoot the messenger, I'm only telling it like it is.

Some Passenger train drivers in the UK have been advised that following a successful trial in New Zealand, they must not use the expression 'Fatality' when telling the public about people hit by trains.

The Policy Deciders at RSSB have decided that the expression now is "Person struck by train".

And the reason for this is that many people who attempt suicide on the Railway are horribly maimed or dismembered rather than killed.

In New Zealand they found that educating the public to the attempted suicide statistics has significantly reduced the occurance of them.

So when you find your train cancelled due to a 'person struck by a train' - ya heard about it here first !

[ccmmick]

Originally Posted by Flying Pig

And the reason for this is that many people who attempt suicide on the Railway are horribly maimed or dismembered rather than killed.

Im sorry i can't quite agree with you on that one Flying Pig.
Yes Person hit by train does sound better than a fatality but not very many people walk away from being hit by a train very very few.

ccmmick.

[Flying Pig]

Originally Posted by ccmmick

Yes Person hit by train does sound better than a fatality but not very many people walk away from being hit by a train very very few.

Well these aren't my statistics. Taken nationally, (ie including the Tube) there are a large number of people who do survive suicide attempts, partly because they get scared at the last moment. It must be pretty terrifying when a train is nearly on top of you.

If somone steps in front of an HST doing 125 mph they'll probably be a gonner, but you'd be surprised at the number of people who mess it up.

I once had a bloke jump in front of my train as I was coming to a stand - and he just shook his head at me like I was some sort of an idiot and walked off. Presumably he didn't realise I was a stopper.

A mate of mine was doing 70 in south London when he saw a womran running away from him in the 4 foot. It turned out that she'd changed her mind at the last moment. She tried to jump clear but lost an arm and a leg.

Alot of people do survive, but it's a life changing experience for all concerned.

I don't understand why people don't use an 'easier' method, but then I guess you've got to be pretty upset to get to that stage.

FP

[ccmmick]

Yes you are right people do bottle it at the last minute and their mind be in one hell of a state i dont think i could do it not that i want to.
But i still say a person on the track hit by a train 125mph or 20mph the chances of you walking away are very slim.

ccmmick.

[richard thompson]

I agree with ccmmick. If you get hit by a train you are in serious trouble. Those that "survive" probably get out the way before bing struck and therefore have not survived being hit by a train. Don`t think it matters what jargon they use myself.
Richard

[Flying Pig]

Originally Posted by richard thompson

I agree with ccmmick. If you get hit by a train you are in serious trouble. Those that "survive" probably get out the way before bing struck and therefore have not survived being hit by a train. Don`t think it matters what jargon they use myself.
Richard

Is this your own personal experience, or are you just guessing? Perhaps I should give a little more detail. If you have a squeamish or sensitive disposition then don't read any further.

Certainly if you are in the four foot and are hit by the main bulk of the train (couplers, buffers, body) then you will receive an enormous amount of kinetic energy. This is highly likely to be fatal.

Sometimes people aren't in the middle or don't get hit squarely, so are side-swiped by the peripheral equipment such as shoe gear or sole bar plates. This is usually fatal but people have survived despite considerable physical trauma.

However in many cases people jump into the path of a train. It's hellishly difficult to estimate the exact time to launch yourself when the train is thundering at you, and people often get it wrong. If they go early they land on the ground and parts of them get run over by the train, which often results in amputation. Sometimes they bleed to death before medical help reaches them, and sometimes they survive.

In any case, it sadly isn't the 'quick end' that they had anticipated.

So the purpose of dropping the word Fatality when advising the public, is to end the myth that the train always kills you.

You may think it's petty but surely it's worth a try - for everybody's sake ?

[ccmmick]

I was in Newton Abbot not all that long ago on my pnb an hst ran in and a young woman jumped in front of it but like you say Flying Pig she got it all wrong they pulled the train apart and she was taken off to hospital with only cuts and bruises she landed right in the four foot as the train went over her.
I dont know if she tried it again or not, lucky or not so lucky for her.

ccmmick.

[richard thompson]

Originally Posted by Flying Pig

Is this your own personal experience, or are you just guessing? Perhaps I should give a little more detail. If you have a squeamish or sensitive disposition then don't read any further.

Certainly if you are in the four foot and are hit by the main bulk of the train (couplers, buffers, body) then you will receive an enormous amount of kinetic energy. This is highly likely to be fatal.

Sometimes people aren't in the middle or don't get hit squarely, so are side-swiped by the peripheral equipment such as shoe gear or sole bar plates. This is usually fatal but people have survived despite considerable physical trauma.

However in many cases people jump into the path of a train. It's hellishly difficult to estimate the exact time to launch yourself when the train is thundering at you, and people often get it wrong. If they go early they land on the ground and parts of them get run over by the train, which often results in amputation. Sometimes they bleed to death before medical help reaches them, and sometimes they survive.

In any case, it sadly isn't the 'quick end' that they had anticipated.

So the purpose of dropping the word Fatality when advising the public, is to end the myth that the train always kills you.

You may think it's petty but surely it's worth a try - for everybody's sake ?

Thanks for the description of casualty kinematics and trauma. 32 years in the fire service means to me that casualties in which life is extinct are fatalities and no amount of glossing changes that. In this country we are already doing something in that we have passenger incidents and a few years ago after a serious train crash there was public objection to the use of the word incident.
In reality if a person who's mind is unbalanced enough to commit suicide the use of nice words won't make a lot of difference they will have a go somehow. Still there is no harm in trying to change things.

Richard

[ccmmick]

Originally Posted by richard thompson

In reality if a person who's mind is unbalanced enough to commit suicide the use of nice words won't make a lot of difference they will have a go somehow. Still there is no harm in trying to change things.

Richard

Well said Richard
If someone is in that state of mind and have had enough with their life then they will do it one way or another it is very sad and no amount of fancy words will ever change it as for people getting onto the railways no amount of work done will ever stop them.
Sorry to say it but a suicide is a fact of life very sad.

ccmmick.

[60159]

We seem to have an obsession nowadays with not saying things as they are and obsessive political correctness. Good manners says we shouldn't be offensive but sadly some people take offence to absolutely anything and we are forced to pander to this ridiculousness.

As to the "Person struck by train" perhaps a little more information would actually better help put the desired message across, for example "Person jumped in front of train in another botched suicide attempt and yet again has survived but been horribly maimed." Stark, but might just put a few people off.

The thing that really gets me however is that the selfish perpetrator has absolutely no consideration for the effect it has on others not least the poor driver.