Enough Northern!

[steam for ever]

I have complained in the past about northern, but now enough is enough.
Yesterday on my way home I counted 40 people between the front seats and the drivers cab on the 142 in charge.
There was an unbelievable crush and there was around 4 people in the vestibule. The fact is that you (northern rail) are taking the ****.

You are quite happy to see trains dangerously overcrowded, with must be at least twice the number of recommended passengers on board. It is dangerous and most likely unlawful.
There is a high risk of people getting hurt, and lets not forget that the majority of the trains are in very bad condition.
Granted, some trains are appearing externally cleaner in recent months, but that does not substitiute for the foul state on the interior.

Toilets seem to be universally blocked, with much urine on the floor and taps that do not work and soap dispensers that do not dispense.

Your staff can be rude and unhelpful. I understand that you must go through the DFT to aqquire new or more trains, but with nothing so much as an apology, your conduct is quite honestly disgusting.
DMUs break down on a regular basis (despite your reliability rating) and substitutes are poor, with no extra services although the number of passengers build up.

You have failed in your duty of care and care and current standards stand
out from other TOCs as being almost third world.
Quite plainly you do not deserve the extension to the franchise. All this and still your website goes on about how good you are.

Sooner or later there will be an accident. One that is too terrible to think of and you and no one else will be at fault, and I am amazed that it has not already happened.
Do something.
Not next year, not next month, do it NOW!!!!!

[faltskog36abba]

i used to travel on a 142 from man vic to stalybridge,the train was like a cattle truck even then,everyone squashed near the doors even though you could stand in the aisle,why do people do this?must admit though,i do stand near the doors on the bury tram,only because ive been unable to get to get off at crumpsall,and then the tram pulls out before you can reach the doors,i then end up at bowker vale,anyway back to northern,i think northern are a good operator,the trains are ancient[granted]but in man vics case-the staff are friendly,ive also seen more than once,the dispatch fella on platform 5 knocking on the windows and telling passengers to move along the carriage and away from the doors,if your train was so overcrowded it shouldnt have been allowed to leave,what route was this on?in the late 90s i used to get a 2 carriage train from man picc to nottingham-then central trains,a 158 used to come into picc,it was standing all the way to sheffield,then again on the way back from notts to chesterfield[if you were lucky]sometimes to sheffield again,i must admit it was nice getting rail vouchers from them after i had a good moan,anyway after that i got on at oxford road and stood until picc then dived into the nearest seat,northern compared to them are great.

[Bubblewrap]

When you buy a ticket for a journey that's what you get, you don't pay for a seat ...........unless you reserve one.

[5701]

Have a look in the back of this m onths Trains Illustrated its the new DMU for Northern!!!!!

[steam for ever]

New DMU?
Well its needed to say the least.

Although you don't pay for a seat you are entrusting them with your life, so you at least expect to be safe and to feel safe.

[WatcherZero]

Im not defending Northern, i think they run dirty and poorly cleaned trains, however its out of their control. They are paid by the government to operate a certain number of services and the government takes a flat 80% of their ticket revenue earned from them in franchise fees. They run the rolling stock the dft assigns them, again they cant put on extra stock if a: it doesnt exist and b: the dft wont pay for it.

If you want less crowded trains complain to government, its them that really run our railways. With the exception of a few operators the franchises are glorified outsourced operational management.

[springs branch mickey]

Just lately I've had to use the London underground, and if you want to know what crowding is, that's the place to go!
I agree totally SFE, these conditions are unacceptable.
mickey

[steam for ever]

This is the thing though, the TOCs should be able to buy their own trains. Northern and other companies cannot help it sometimes, but its when they don't even admit anything is wrong, let alone apologise that really boils my blood.

I have to agree with recent trends that Privatisation is failing, although I have always supported it in the past. It's just too complicated to run. Many want BR back, but I'm sad to say I don't know how much better off we would be, if at all in terms of service.

[Deathbyteacup]

Ah, here we go again.

I've experienced this occasionally when the service before the one I am on has failed or been canceled, trying to shoehorn too many people into a 142 to the point where the doors don't close, isn't nice, but, I have to take issue with you on a few points;

1) On every occasion people have been instructed to move down the train, and do so.
2) Northern Rail are not responsible for people choosing where to stand.
3) You can move down into the vestibule yourself and / or ask others to do so. You didn't?
4) Apart from the pacers, Northern's trains seem fine inside, specifically, their sprinters and adelente units have all been comfortable and clean to me. Maybe I've not got very high standards.
5) Pacers are for getting commuters in and out of the city quickly, they do kinda fill a roll. They're not plesent but they do their job. This isn't Northern's fault, they have to use them.
6) I can tell you now that I've been on a Northern train that WAS dirty because it wasn't cleaned, and the conductor apologised for this on several
occasions. The interiors are usually "clean", save for the litter placed during the journey, it's just the interior itself I think you have a problem with?
7) Toilets are universally blocked - this is a lie. They're just not.
8) Staff can be rude and unhelpful - never, ever experienced this. Everyone I've ever delt with has been a pleasure.
9) DMU's break down - this would be Pacers, but again, not Northern's fault.


I personally think Northern have made the very best of what they've been given. Compared to the previous incumbants of the franchise, they're amazing. I'd personally like to see them stay. It's the DfT that need to make the changes needed to the franchise, not Northern.

You sound like someone with an axe to grind just because you've had an unpleasent trip. Sadly, that's just reality, regardless of TOC.

[48111]

Well I am not involved in this discussion in as much as I dont know Northern, or indeed any of the other private companys, but my goodness, what a way to carry on, on the railway.
Who would have thought that it would come to this.

It all boils down to the fact that todays railway is not being run by railwaymen/women. It is being run by private companys with a very great emphasise on money money money and the people in charge have as much interest in railways as I have in ballet dancing.

48111