modelling N/Mid-Wales - advice please

[Obstinate Cymric]

Gentlemen

I'm about to model a North or Mid-Wales line, 1940s/1950s, in N.

What locos and coaches would have run during these years? Models and livery suggestions please.

[lnwr20]

Hello Obstinate Cymric welcome to the forum, It depends on weather you intend to model the LMS or GWR as to what locos an coaches an liverys would have been running if you were to model somewhere like Builth Road Station you could run both LMS an GWR. The GWR ran services that called at the low level station an the LMS called at the high level station both had goods yards an there was a link line between the both but it was rarly used for through traffic or anything else it was uesd mainly by the GWR as another siding for there goods yard as for liverys, The LMS would have been black or maroon on the locos an Maroon coaches as for the GWR sorry i don't know but the low level station trains used to run from Cardiff, Myrthyr, an Brecon going to Moat Lane Junction on the Cambrian. The High Level Traffic was from Craven Arms to Swansea Victoria which is now long since demolished. If you need anymore help just let me know.

[John H-T]

Welcome to the Forum Obstinate Cymric.

1940's-1950's in Mid wales would be quite an exciting era to model as there were quite a few pre-grouping locos still around. However modelling in N you would have to scratch build most of them!

The last of the Cambrian 0-6-0's were not withdrawn until 1954. Two Cambrian 2-4-0T survived into 1948 and the delightful Liskeard and Looe 2-4-0T survived into 1948 working on the Tanet Valley Line. Then there were the GWR Dean Goods and the Dukedogs as well as more modern post 1923 GWR types including the Manors and the moguls. Some of the LNWR Coal Tanks survived in North and Mid-Wales until well into BR days. Liveries would be mainly GWR/LMS with some BR if you go post 1948.

If you are not commited to N gauge you would be better off with 00 as all the above are available as kits or ready to run apart from the Cambrian 0-6-0.

The recently republished "Tanat Valley Light Railway" by Mike Lloyd (Wild Swan Publications) is quite good to get a feel for pre 1948 GWR in Wales.

Many other books unfortunately concertrate on post 1948 photos although are good for photos of Stations etc:

Steam in Mid Wales by Michael Hale (Welsk Railway Reseach Group, www.wrrc.org.uk ) has maps and a good selection of photos.

British Railway Pictorial Cambrian Lines by Rex Ghristiansen (Ian Allan) has a selection of early BR photos.

I have some more material but will have to look for it if you are interested.

Sounds like an interesting project.

best wishes,

John H-T.

[Obstinate Cymric]

Thank you Phill. You've set me researching Builth Wells already. It's a lovely part of the country.

I didn't realise LMS would have stretched this far west. In nationwide terms, where was the dividing line between their territories? Did LMS cover Shrewsbury, Wrexham and the North Wales lines?

[Obstinate Cymric]

John H-T, thank you so much. I didn't know the the Welsh Railways Group existed. It is right up my street.

Thank you for your early-class descriptions. To my beginner's eye they get little press compared with the more numerous and ubiquitous later Manors, etc.

N is the way to go for now, but one day when the wife and I leave our London terrace we'll expand. Who doesn't dream of a garden railway for the grandchildren?

[John H-T]

The LMS had quite a stong presence in Wales reaching right down to Carmathan via the Central Wales Line. There were also a number of joint GWR/LMS LInes. Then there were the North Wales Branches to Blaenau Festiniog, Bethesda, Lanberis, Afon Wen (to connect with the Cambrian Line). The Main Line onto Anglesey and the line from Rhyl to Corwen. to connect with the Ruabon to Barmouth Line (GWR) It was not clear cut!

As you say the area round Builth and the Upper Wye Valley is beautiful.

Wales was really the last place for many attractive pre-grouping classes and you really can mix LMS and GWR. Sadly as I said there is not too much ready to run in N guage. However if you look in the New Copy of Model rail you will see a very convincing 0 gauge layout in a space 8 feet by 2 feet 6 inches. Might change you mind!

Best wishes,

John H-T.

[John H-T]

While sorting out some of my books I found "North Wales Branch Line Album" by C.C.Green 1983 reprinted 1996 pub Ian Allan. Plenty of pre 1948 photos including LNWR Coal Tanks, which seem to have been very common in the area. Also a reminder of the GCR line into Connah's Quay, so the possibility of an LNER element!

Also "The Conway Valley Line" by Larry Goddard 2004, pub: Foxline. Picture of the LNWR Observation Coach now preserved at The Bluebell, which was used on the branch.

All adds up to a really interesting selection of stock!

Best wishes,

John H-T.