Class 73 electro-diesels

[steam for ever]

I've only ever seen one class 73, and now I'm not sure where it was. Was there one at railfest this year?

Anyway, it has been arguably one of the most successful classes first generation diesel locomotives, and they are still around on the national network in significant numbers.
Their longevity has been due to their ability to run either off a third rail DC power supply, or by means of an onboard engine, and also that there has been nothing to replace them.
As fantastic as they are, they are getting on for 50+ years old, which exceeds their intended life span quite considerably.

Are there any plans for a new locomotive of this type?

I have noticed that since privatisation, classes of loco and multiple unit have ceased to be replaced as they should, and the result is an ageing fleet which is becoming more difficult to maintain.
I like the old classes such as 47 and 37, but really it would help firms in this country such as Wabtec Brush and Hunslet by generating new locomotive orders.
Sureley a new British electrodiesel could be designed an built here, and be the envy of the world?

[bigmacca1]

We don't 'make' locos any more; we're only considered skilled enough to clean the wax off them when they come off the ship and give them a shake-down. GM, Siemens and Bombardier rule the roost. Given the number of Diesel-electrics that are running up and down the WCML (under the wires) I think the 'green credentials' of many of our operators are open to question as well. Derby, Newton-le-Willows, Crewe, Swindon and co put together some masterpieces but they're now as defunct as the HST and we prefer to buy-in our technology from places that used to be our competitors. The chances of a new British electric locomotive any time soon are now about as remote as Branson reclaiming the WCML.

[steam for ever]

Originally Posted by bigmacca1

We don't 'make' locos any more; we're only considered skilled enough to clean the wax off them when they come off the ship and give them a shake-down. GM, Siemens and Bombardier rule the roost. Given the number of Diesel-electrics that are running up and down the WCML (under the wires) I think the 'green credentials' of many of our operators are open to question as well. Derby, Newton-le-Willows, Crewe, Swindon and co put together some masterpieces but they're now as defunct as the HST and we prefer to buy-in our technology from places that used to be our competitors. The chances of a new British electric locomotive any time soon are now about as remote as Branson reclaiming the WCML.

I'm well aware about the import of railway materials, but I'm afraid not all of what you say is true.

Hunslet has launched a class of diesel electric shunters with a mind to replacing ancient 08 fleets- another class with a good record.
I'm afraind the comment about Bombardier doesn't make sense, as they build multiple units at Derby Litchurch Lane. It has been suggested that the Bombardier Traxx locomotive which sees extensive use on the continent could be adapted for use in this country, although this would involve using a much cut down body in both width and height.

to be fair to the train operating companies, they don't get to choose the multiple units they get. This is decided by the DFT and then the trains are 'leased' by companies such as Angel Trains and Porterbrook, which are completely out of control.
I argue that the goverments basis for buying in foreign locomotives is as absurd as privatisation itself. By building here we could be saving huge shipping costs.

The problem with Brush nowadays is that it doesn't really show much enthusiasm, which is probably a bit off putting.
Hopefully, once Hunslet has got a fair few orders, it might set the ball rolling.

[graham9qh]

Would be good to see some good looking new diesels instead of the frankly ugly US ones we've bought recently. I know they're functional but do they have to be so ugly?

[bigmacca1]

Point taken about the diesel-electric shunters but what about replacing the mainline locos; we're sending 86's to Hungary, 87's to Bulgaria and scrapping others whilst running - as the previous poster notes - exceedingly ugly but functional diesel-electrics. What's the point of all the OHLE when trains are running mainly diesel-hauled under the wires. The government is talking about extending electrification from Manchester to Preston via Bolton and Chorley but not encouraging British manufacturers to come up with suitable replacements for the ageing 9X electric locos that would be ideal for Trafford Park traffic north once this electrification was complete. Wiring up GOBLIN and the NLL throughout and gauge-widening the crucial parts of the freight network make far more economic sense than throwing billions at HS2 which will never pay for itself.

[steam for ever]

I agree that its crazy how lines are being electrified, but the traction isn't keeping up.
Note that there has been a lot said about the electrification of the Great Western Main line, but very little about the trains to run on it. The only suggestion I've seen is of Alstom Pendolinos, and lets face it, we don't want those everywhere.

It seems that since dieselisation, british trains lack the edge that they used to have. The way I see it, begining in the 1930s British Industry became over confident with its grip over the world, and became more relaxed when it came to keeping one step ahead in terms of technology. Between 1947 and 1957, the British Empire effectively collapsed, and former colonies found it easier to buy from non British companies, especially European companies which had been given substantial compensation after the war from the United States. During this time, though no fault of the skilled people who built the grand machines, the remaining British firms failed completely to adjust to the changing market.
There are other sides to it i'm sure, but successive governments have failed to see this decline as a serious issue, and probably the most idiotic thing done in terms of the engineering world, was the selling off of BREL to private companies, many of which subsequently stripped assets and moved abroad.
Its going to be difficult to get back into the market, and our past world prestige isn't really going to help now. Like Hunslet has done in recent years, we need to start again from the ground up.

[bigmacca1]

Couldn't agree more. We had a winner in the APT but BR allowed itself to be driven by media opinion and released a product to market that was still flawed and worse still released it in the worst possible weather conditions. Given the amount of money that SNCF 'threw' at the TGV project BR would have seen it to completion I guess. Successive governments have paid lip service to the public service requirement and prefer a 'free-for-all' in both rail manufacture and regulation. I note that the Potters Bar enquiry seems to be eventually drawing to a close 10 years after the tragic accident, leaving NR to pick up the pieces left behind by Railtrack! (no pun intended!) Yet the Leveson Enquiry was thrown together in the space of a few weeks because certain high-profile individuals had had their phones tapped! Priorities are down the pan, obviously! NR bleat about the amount of infrastructure that's being nicked but on a visit to Manchester Piccadilly recently I spotted yards and yards of discarded rail lying in the 6-foot just asking to be stolen! It obviously costs more for NR to recover it than it does "Ivor Flatbed Rail Disposals".

[steam for ever]

It would certainly help if network rail (notwork fail) tidied up a bit. The sheer amount of junk that is left around is shocking like you say. Everywhere there is rail, rail clips, bits of tubing and even left over bags/ piles of balast which make the railway look untidy.
The often shady outside contractors that both railtrack and Network rail have used have done a lot to ruin the image of the railway, in more than just aesthetic terms.
Two books in my posession (one of which is by Christian Wolmar) comment on the history of railways in this country, and both state that privatisation is a mess.
I'm going to look for them after, so I can name the book titles if that is of any interest.

The very idiotic bidding system for locomotive and rolling stock building contracts makes the idea unattractive and probably unfeasable to some companies, whereas they may well have fared better if the railways were nationalised once more.
The failings of the bidding system currently used by the DFT has been publicly shamed in the similar situation of franchising. We all know that as the whole Virgin/First group fiasco that is ongoing.

This seems to have stirred up the questions about re-nationalisation to some degree, so hopefully the public may have got behind that cause to some degree.

[bigmacca1]

Yeah, I think you're right. The obsession with the 'internal market' and PFI just as in the Health Service seems to make the 'movers and shakers' continually best-guess themselves before they dare to spend money on anything. Where's the entrepreneurial spirit of the LMS, LNER nd GWR gone? These were 'venture capitalists' on a huge scale who thought nowt about racing to the North, swopping locos (Kings and Pacifics), risking ridicule by streamlining; if privatisation was such a good thing for the consumer why - when you look on National Rail Enquiries do you now need >1 ticket to do some journeys and why (on some journeys, e.g. Stoke on Trent to M/CR Piccadilly, are two single tickets, cheaper than a return? LMS/LNER and co had through-ticketing before WWII without computers or online booking! British Rail had its faults but the shambles we have now just defies belief!

[pre65]

I found a film on you tube which might please SFE, about when Britain did lead the world in locomotive design and build.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyFqU...eature=related